Degrees for work experience

Michael

You are the one aserting UFRS is a legitimate institution. The questions I have asked you are simple basic questions I would expect anyone considering any school to know. If asking these simple questions makes you argumentative and hostile that is your issue not mine.

As I previously pointed out UFRS has been investigated by Peter French a person known by most who post here. He found that AUAP and UFRS operated out of the same bank account. UFRS has many telltale signs of a degree mill. You may choose toignore these, but others aren't likely to.

You are correct that I found your posts in the other thread to show a great deal of intolerance and anger, but not towards racism. If my opinion is troubling to you I apologize. In any event take care.

 

Membership in AACRAO is unscreened. It means nothing.

 

Thank you for an actual answer..... what about ACE ???

 

I am not sure about ACE, we don't work much with them because we evaluate schools and school approval systems, not student work or credits.

The key issue is the distinction between membership in an organization (often open to all who pay the fee) and evaluation by an organization (a far different process).

AACRAO, for example, accepts memberships from a lot of people (indeed, it IS a membership organization for college registrars and admissions people) but its evaluation units are completely separate.

 

You're looking in the wrong places, those are nice sounding organizations but membership doesn't prove academic legitimacy. If the person on the phone actually claimed that then I'd be very surprised.

Read the thread that was linked to regarding this degree mill. It should be made clearer to you.

 

ACE's membership directory seems to list three classes of member: "institutions/systems (US only)", "national/regional associations" and "other" which "includes international subscribers, corporations and affiliates etc." The latter classification is where you find AUAP.

http://www.acenet.edu/about/memberdirectory/index.cfm

It's noteworthy that ACE says this (and highlights it):

IMPORTANT: Please note that ACE does not accredit institutions and that membership in ACE does not confer accreditation. To find a list of accrediting bodies and the institutions they accredit, please visit the Council for Higher Education Accreditation at http://www.chea.org/directories/ or the Department of Education.

So, my guess is that ACE isn't going to be comfortable with the suggestion that it's putting its weight behind AUAP's endorsement of this mysterious and extremely questionable "Université Francophone Robert de Sorbon". (Which by some strange coincidence seems to use the same FL mailing address as AUAP.)
.

 

We contacted AACRAO and the Canadian government about the carp du jour called Robert de Sorbon. Both treat it as NOT an acceptable French degree-granter.

Inquiries have been sent to the French government and to several other European nations. We know that the UK and Sweden are looking into what the animal really is.

The Sorbon thing has sent the Oregon Department of Justice a threatening letter with which our attorneys were not impressed. We will continue to list it on our web site as bogus. We will ignore any further communications coming from the entity itself and will only work with national educational authorities.

 

To Lorenza on Master on experience

ref "is there any university which offer a master in tourism management using work experience?"

Yes it is possible but very difficult in France through the French Public universities like:

University de Savoie
www.univ-savoie.fr/Portail/Groupes/ Vie_Etudiante/Maison_de_l_Etudiant/reva/ProcedureVAE.pdf

Paris XII University
www.univ-paris12.fr/www/fp/guideconseil85.pdf

and private non profit schools like ESC Pau and ESU Robert de Sorbon.

Is there any other country where it is possible ?
Regards.

 

Re: To Lorenza on Master on experience

Bismillah Al Rahman Al Rahim!

GREAT info! Pls suggest more if you know. Waiting for your news asap.

Ciao Lorenza

 

My shill-o-meter is pegging so I will add a comment.

Our contacts in D.C., Europe and Canada tell us that the entity called Robert de Sorbon is in fact not a genuine French-approved degree-granting school. We treat it as a probable diploma mill.

 

Dear Sir: I have a very poor english so I will be short. I am european journalist international and full member of the Chartered Institute of Journalist of UK. First of all I want to give it to you my congratulations due to your work on increasing the quality of the education on your country. I think that the state should have the last word on education and must take care of the interest of the citizens, thats whay I like the european system of education.

Sincerily I find, like a journalist, some contradictions in some ways whem you refer to your “inquires” to several other european nations. First of all, the rest of the european nations has nothing to say about a law and school of other member of the EU, we have the Lisbon agreement and thats all. I can not imagine what kind of question can you make to the spanish government about an school on France. The only goverment concerned by this is the France Government.

No european government will say nothing about VAE law due that is coming from a sovereing country, so I can not understand what will be the interest of anybody in UK or Sweden,(by the way Sweden is not a member of the UE) on it. The Ecole superieure (non profit) is a very comon figure on the french educational system and any case this will be a problem of the French Government, if the Ecole is legally registered or not.

The french law can put you the amount of 20000€ ,L-731-14 du code de l´educationon, on panish to a school that use a bogus degree and you can go to prisión for it. If you say and have the evidences that this school is a bogus, them your duty like responsable personality on education is to go directly to the court and start legal actions against them. The european law allow you to do this if you consider yourself, on this case the students you are traing to protec, are being injured for it. It is a VERY EASY, I do not like the french people to much, like a good spanish,(since Napoleon´s time) but they have a very serious courts of justice, one of the best in Europe, so this affair will be finished in just a short time that I can not understand whay all of this.

Will you go against the other french universities that have the same aplication of the VAE law, incluiding the publics universities?. Sure not, but if they were on USA market? perhaps, will you change your opinion?. So it seems to me that in your educational system there is a thousand of cross interest, just may be.

Like a journalist when I give and receive an information I like to speak cleary wich is the source. You say “some inquires” ok but to whom, in wich kind of doucument where made, it was a single call, in wich way the others european nations was consulted, what was the answer, and please show the oficials documents with the answers of this nations. If you give it to me the evidences that I could not find here, (I called to the French embassy and they give it to me a complet information about the law and the diferents ecoles) and the school is by the moment registered on France, please give it to me and I will make a very nice news article.

In France you can close a bogus school easily, you have in USA univeristies like Rochville that give degrees on a flat with diplomas printed on Arabian Emirates, COMPLETLY BOGUS, and noone say nothing when each day thousands of people are cheated by them. Will you like to have a diploma from them?, I can send it to you, I made an investigation when I start working on this area for an article, and easily I received the diploma, but never paid when I cancel the Visa charge and said that I was a journalist. Now my work on this area is finished and I have a very good opinion about your educational system in some areas and very bad in others, like I expresed on this forum long time ago. I am sure you are training to do the very best for your state, and I like that your ODA tray to work for it, the other day in this forum you said this:

“The problem is not that you need a bachelor's degree, the problem is that you don't need such a degree but that we live in a society in which degrees have achieved a false valuation. Thus your colleagues give you the fish-eye.
To my astonishment, the Chronicle of Higher Education has accepted an essay in which I argue that society needs fewer degrees, a shift of formal training back into the workplace and a disconnection between degrees and employment. It should be out this fall.”

This showed to me that you are really a learned person on your area, this is the kind of opinon not frecuently find it on the academic world. You are not in a easy position any case, good luck on your work, and excuse my bad english, and the way of my questions, but I am a journalist,may be you can give it to me an scholarship to learn it in a Oregon school.

 

Sorry: due to my bad english I made a mistake between Sweden and Switzerland, in spanish they are Suecia and Suiza.

 

truth in advertising

A Google search for "diploma mill" turns up an aromatic, enscaled, enfinned entity in the list of sponsored links, right there as #5 in the right-hand column...

If it walks right up to you and keeps saying "quack," most repeatedly and insistently, and then does duck-you-know-what on your shoe, also most repeatedly and insistently, it wants you to know it's a duck.

Or is there something I'm missing?

Now, I realize I'm mixing my fish and fowl metaphors, but you get my drift.

G

 

bravo!

Mr Contreras made a very clear post on the difference of being a member of the accrediting body and being evaluated by them.

Bravo!

I am learning something instead of all the time the same thing about "shills" and this and that!

 

First let me say I'm undecided on UFRS but leaning heavily towards mill.

Alan, can you please give some more details. Have you been given documentation or verification that the school is granting illegal degrees? I have seen much speculation but never any hard proof.

Awhile back I contacted the French ministry of education and other French legislative offices to look into this 'school'.

One contact in the ministry of education said that the UFRS* degrees would most likely not be considered legal, but that the French Ecole Supérieure Universitaire Robert de Sorbon might be able to issue legal degrees.

I was directed to some other members in the French education system but discussion ran into a roadblock when they could not speak English, as I do not speak French.

As a side note I did contact the AUAP and verified they back the UFRS(big surprise  ). So I called a few of the US RA schools that AUAP designates as granting equivalency off of the AUAP’s evaluation. I did have a few say that they normally took the AUAP’s evaluation as legit, but none directly stated that a UFRS degree would count solely on the AUAP’s evaluation, and they would have to do some research of their own.

If you have proof I would like to present it to Dr. Prade and UFRS and see what response I receive.


Again I would like to state that I’m not defending this school, but I would sincerely like to be able to have definitive proof to display one way or the other. If you(Alan) would like to know the names of the French officials I have spoken with I would supply them through e-mail.





* This was back when there were two entities listed on the website. One was the UFRS and they listed the Ecole Supérieure Universitaire Robert de Sorbon as their french campus.

 

We do not have to prove that Robert de Sorbon is not a French-approved degree-granting school. They have to prove that it IS such a school.

Has the French government listed the entity among other French universities as a French degree-granter evaluated and authorized in the same way as other French degree granters, and affirmed that all of its degrees are legal for use inside France on the same basis as other French universities?

We know of no such documentation. Our colleagues at AACRAO, the UK government, the Canadian government and the Swedish Government cannot find any such documentation.

Only a formal documented statement meeting the standards noted above has meaning.

 

Thanks for the quick reply!

Thats exactly what I suspected and wanted to hear.

Thanks again.