Curing Arafat's Illness: a Prescription

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by uncle janko, Oct 28, 2004.

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  1. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Janko has made an excellent diagnosis, prescribed the needed medication and the prognosis looks extremely promising. :D
     
  3. grgrwll

    grgrwll New Member

    It's too bad Jesus can't forgive Arafat. But obviously he can't. If he could, then good Christians wouldn't be hoping for his bloody death, they would be praying for Arafat to "see the light." Now that might change the world. But that's not what you want. You want more death and destruction.
     
  4. AV8R

    AV8R Active Member

    Re: Re: Curing Arafat's Illness: a Prescription

    Jesus can forgive anyone's sins. What makes you assume that Christians are not praying for Arafat? Christians pray for ALL unsaved people. It's not a pick and choose kind of thing or some kind of selective club that one joins.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Curing Arafat

    Jesus could indeed forgive, grgrwll. Myriad prayers have been offered for Arafat to "see the light," and this is what the Christian community desires--certainly not more death and destruction. However, Jesus also taught that those who take up the sword will die by the sword (Matt. 26:52). Reflecting on his past behavior, as well as current policies, it appears Arafat has chosen to live by the sword. In this regard, it is not that Christians want more death/destruction, but an end to such madness.
     
  6. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Indeed.

    Further, Mr Arafat says that he is a good Muslim. As such, he would not want forgiveness from Prophet Isa, since ascribing such authority to a mere man, even a prophet, is tantamount to shirk, the unforgivable and idolatrous divinization of a creature and the association of that creature with Allah. (To our Muslim posters: if this misrepresents the concept of shirk, please correct.)

    It is , of course, the fantasy "Jesus" of modern secularists who becomes a sort of forgiveness machine: enter name of one's fave monster or monstrousness here, certify political correctness of monster there, (optional) add clucking critique of Christian "judgmentalism" here when the light of enlightenment flashes, deposit thirty pieces of silver here, push button of righteous compassion for pure evil here, and hey presto! heeeere's "forgiveness."

    I'd rather play the slots than count on that contraption to "forgive" anybody's sins.

    The real Jesus, God Incarnate, does indeed have limitless authority to forgive sins. However, He forgives sins only where there is repentance (none noted in Mr Arafat) and faith in Himself and His authority to forgive sins (necessarily absent in Mr Arafat). He does not go about saying to the murderers and monsters ofthe world "Awwwww. Nice Hitler. Nice Stalin. Nice Arafat! I'll forgive you withour repentance or faith or any amendment of life, just to show up those horrid Christians for the pesky intolerant folks they are."
     
  7. grgrwll

    grgrwll New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Curing Arafat's Illness: a Prescription

    Perhaps this statement:

    "RX: Go to a pizza parlor and get a taste of your own medicine."

    Janko wants blood, not repentence, forgiveness, or peace. Vengeance. Death. Blood.

    Yeah, right. That's why this thread started with a "man of the cloth" wishing that Arafat would be blown up. Give me a break.

    It has to stop somewhere. Why can't it begin to stop with with us? Why can't we denounce all of the killings in this fight, even if we think they deserve it? Stop. Please, just stop. No one should be blow up in a pizza parlor. No one. Stop.

    But no, that, apparently, is not the Christian thing to do. Then call me a heretic.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2004
  8. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    You are always the cryptic one. (I knew I should have kept my secret decoder ring that I got from Ovaltine as a kid, back in the fifties.)

    I'm not sure what pizza parlors have to do with Arafat's mysterious illness (heart burn?) but I'm guessing that you are hoping that a terrorist bomber happens along and blows the establishment up while he's in it.

    I don't know. Arafat is 75 years old. It's not unusual for guys his age start having health problems. At some point, he's gonna die. Same as you and me Unk.

    I don't cheer it. It's sad, really. But it's inevitable ultimately.

    So I wonder what effect Arafat's death will have on Palestinian politics.

    The guy's a snake. There's no question. He spurned the Clinton/Barak initiative that was probably the best offer that the Palestinians will ever receive. He plays the statesman while his Fatah organization promotes and undertakes the most brutal terrorism.

    But Arafat is a political (but maybe not medical) survivor. He survives precisely by playing all sides of the street. He's all things to all men.

    That means that while he isn't perfect, he's always better than the alternative of having one's diametrical opponents win.

    The pro-peace side sees Arafat as better than Hamas. The militants see Arafat as better than the pro-peace side.

    Without Arafat, it's hard to see anyone among the Palestinians with the personal charisma to play the middle like he does. So the Palestinians are apt to fragment into an ungovernable mess of incompatible factions.

    So even if Sharon wants to wash his hands of the whole thing, just build his wall and forget most of the Palestinian areas, there won't be anyone in a position to receive the keys. The danger is that a new Palestinian state will become the new Afghanisan, an anarchical new land of opportunity for international terrorism.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Curing Arafat's Illness: a Prescription

    When enemies of peace and civility refuse to alter the course of their life (e.g., Bin Laden, Saddam, etc...), they need to be removed. If, as Janko has suggested, such antagonists would submit to God in humility and with a repentant heart, then yes, all the madness could stop. But alas, the vast majority of such individuals never do......
     
  10. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Insightful as always, Bill. Thanks. Arafat's worst crime is the political castration of the Palestinians--worse than Fatah terrorism because it has spawned religious-radical terrorism and left the prospect of a functional, democratic, responsible Palestinian state way beyond the blue. But, hey, once a freedom fighter, always a freedom fighter.

    Bill, here's the ref.: Palestinian schools put up displays of the Sbarro bombing complete with fake gore, limbs, etc., in order to encourage the next generation of Levantine Young Pioneers.

    The last thing I would do is call you a heretic, grgrwll. You'd get too much satisfaction out of it.

    I love it when secularists say that a "man of the cloth" must be a sweet, emasculated, witless, smilin' Fritz. If you want sweet, try Russell, gbcpastor, Jimmy, or the others. As shahid Anwar al-Sadat said of Ezer Weizman, they are "sweet men." I am not. And none of us is a moron or a eunuch.
     
  11. grgrwll

    grgrwll New Member

    That's not what I'm saying. Quite the opposite in fact. I understand that Christianity is not about love.

    I understand that you rejoice in the name of Christ in the death of those you feel unworthy. I understand that you don't want "those people" to be saved. I understand that you want to perpetuate an endless cycle of violence.

    No, I do not expect you to be sweet.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2004
  12. AV8R

    AV8R Active Member


    You just described Islam, NOT Christianity. Just fill in "Allah" where you have posted "Christ" and you have Islam. Christianity has EVERYTHING to do with love.

    Christians would rejoice if Arafat were to repent and change his ways. Unfortunately, the probability of his doing so are slim and none.
     
  13. Tom57

    Tom57 Member

    No that's not Islam either.

    Is it any wonder that the multitudes have deserted formal religion?

    Janko writes, "However, He forgives sins only where there is repentance (none noted in Mr Arafat) and faith in Himself and His authority to forgive sins (necessarily absent in Mr Arafat)."

    One only gets forgiveness if one believes in Jesus (and if one doesn't, then why would one care about forgiveness?). Is that it? Can Arafat be forgiven, then, even if he does repent? One must depend on His authority to forgive. How do we know when He has given that forgiveness? Oh, I see, when one of His self-appointed spokespersons speaks for Him. And when those same self-appointed spokespeople blow up other humans we may assume that they are also speaking for Him?

    When I visited Guatemala a dozen years ago, I was astounded at the number of Christian churches in and around Antigua. What was the first thing the Christian "insurgents" did after wiping out the natives? You guessed it - put up a church. God would be so proud. The word of the Lord. Thanks be to God.

    I know, we silly "modern secularists" just don't get it. Yes, exactly.

    When I hear the non-secular continuing to justify bigotry (I am not talking about individuals on this thread, just generally), violence, and hatred on religious grounds, by claiming that, somehow, Jesus, Allah (insert name of deity here), endorses it, it all becomes way too convoluted. I'm reminded of the early Astronomers who still held to the idea of the Earth as the center of the universe, and who explained the hard-to-explain motion of the planets with an implausible system of pulleys and gears. It just doesn't hang together very well.
     
  14. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Arafat Medical Report

    I was watching CNN a little while ago and they had a woman on who recently saw Arafat.

    She says that he fell ill perhaps a couple of weeks ago with what initially looked like the flu. Then his stomach was involved and eventually he began to vomit everything he ate. That failed to abate and he was put on an IV.

    He's become so weak that he can no longer walk and spends most of his time sleeping. When he's awake, he's often in a confused disoriented state and no longer recognizes people. But at other times he returns to full alertness and lucidity.

    The doctors attending him have done various tests and apparently his white blood cell count is all out of wack, but she didn't provide a lot of information about how, exactly. Somebody commented that could be due to a lot of things, from cancer to infections.

    There are reports circulating that they have endoscoped his gastrointestinal tract, but didn't see any obvious tumors or lesions.

    The consensus among his attending physicians is that he really needs to be hospitalized immediately, but in his moments of lucidity Arafat has said that he wants to die in Palestine and has a horror of dying in some European hospital thousands of miles away.

    But apparently the Israelis have their own horror of having him die on them and their restrictions on his movements being blamed for it. So they relented and said that if he left for treatment he could return when he recovered.

    So the plan now seems to be for him to be flown as soon as possible to Paris for treatment.
     
  15. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Oy, veh. If Arafat ascends to his thirteen doe eyed virgins while the IDF surrounds him, the ENTIRE Arab world and their syncophants in Europe will announce that the JEWS KILLED HIM.

    I admit, as a Jew, that I have often wondered whether the world would not be better off if Arafat were treated with a half-ounce of plumbium behind the ear.

    I am not so sure that he is the real enemy, however, or merely a symptom. In other words, if he didn't exist, the Arab states would have to create him. Again.
     
  16. firstmode4c

    firstmode4c Member

    One only gets forgiveness if one believes in Jesus (and if one doesn't, then why would one care about forgiveness?). Is that it?

    Well, one only gets forgiveness from God if they believe and ask jesus/God for forgiveness. That is what our religion believes.
     
  17. firstmode4c

    firstmode4c Member

    Sometimes Christians get angry just like everyone else. I do not think it is right for anyone to get angry and hate, but we all have our own battles that we have to face within ourselves.

    Don't always expect a christian to be acting any better than anyone else. Expect that they are striving to be better people. Some people have a lot more complications than others.

    Sometimes it takes a long time for Christ to work in the hearts of some people and they have many pitfalls along the way. But they are striving to be Christ like.
     
  18. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Self-appointment all over the place!

    Hi Nosborne: bang-on, as always (pun heartily intended).

    P.S. plumbum, not plumbium

    (Yes, I am the self-appointed Latinist in these parts, at least until Mark rejoins our active ranks--God speed the day.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2004
  19. Kit

    Kit New Member

    Re: Re: Curing Arafat's Illness: a Prescription

    That's not "obvious". Maybe Jesus could forgive Arafat, you don't know. Jesus didn't make the statement you're referring to, Janko made that statement and Janko is not Jesus.

    Don't profess to know what Jesus thinks based on an off-handed angry statement by one Christian. Christians are human and therefore fallible, they know that so they don't profess to speak for their God. (Spare me any myriad examples of Christians who do or did claim to speak for Jesus. That's just their own human fallibility showing and isn't any reflection on Jesus.)

    Kit
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2004
  20. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    I appreciate hearing your thoughts on Arafat's role... Perhaps one day the Palestinians will have a wise leader who will stop impeding the peace process.

    Dave
     

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