Counseling

David, for a number of reasons I think you are making a wise decision about going back to GSU. First, I harbor serious doubt about the viability of obtaining psychology licensure with the EdD in counseling from Argosy. Secondly, if you are going to take the plunge, I think you're well-served by going with psychology as it will open more doors. Listen to Howard on this issue; he's been there done that and looking for a way around the constraints of counselor licensure. Third, you will be better off attending a publicly funded institution. You'll see why I say this after reviewing the following: http://www.apa.org/monitor/feb99/toc.html and under the Deparments heading read Shared Perspectives and then under the Psychology and Society heading read Balancing One's Future...

You will be very well-served by developing strong skills in psychological assessment. So, even though they are difficult plan on taking coursework in areas like the Rorschach and neuropsychology. Then, seek out practica which employ these skills. This will give you a leg up in contrast with students who have simply taken the coursework and given the minimum number of administrations. Internships like students who can hit the ground running. Georgia is one of the states that is actively pursuing Rx privileges for psychologists so in the long run it may be wise for you to pursue more than just the minimum required coursework in biological bases of behavior. I kind of recall where GPA has developed a training program for prescribing a limited formulary of psychoactive medications by way of a consortium of the GSU Psychology Department, UGA pharmacy school, and the Nurse Practitioner program at either Savannah or Armstrong State.

Best wishes,

David

 

A ph.d. in counseling which can help one offer a private counseling practice?
I have to think about how much resource (my time, my money) it will take and how useful the degree will be (personal fulfillment, income, status, etc.)
There are many counseling professions. Mental Health Counseling, Rehabilitation Counseling, Guidance Counseling, Psychological Counseling, Substance Abuse Counseling, Marriage Counseling, Clinical Social Work, etc. However, I think when you look at the added benefit (income, status), the ph.d. in psychology would pay off in the long run.
There are ph.d. programs in mental health counseling. I don't see much difference in the coursework between them and psychology. It doesn't make sense to think the "abnormal mental health" course will be a significantly different field from the "abnormal psychology" class. However, in terms of 3rd party payments, insurance company payments, I hear from many people that the ph.d. in psy. makes it easier to get on the insurance companies accepted provider lists.
The requirements of both degree programs are quite similar. If I was pursuing a ph.d. in the counseling field, I would look at psychology over mental health. Both will require internships. Both a dissertation. The ph.d. in psychology may not require anything different (other than the name of the programs and the credentials of the internship supervisors) than a ph.d. in mental health.
I would consider Educational Psychology. If the program was APA approved. Ed. Psy. would permit consultation in the growing field of emotional disturbances among school aged children, and diagnosis of learning disabilities. However, you can specialize in child psychology in a psy. program.
The psychology and mental health programs that I familiar with will require a certain amount of face-to-face classroom time and face-to-face clinical supervision.
I believe Nova has a psychology program, I don't know if they are APA approved. Antioch is APA approved in NH. At Antioch your classes are on campus 2 days a week the first year, and then 1 day a week the 2nd year. I believe when Argosy was Sarasota they added a psychology program that appeared to require half the classes through on campus summer school and half at a distance. I think when you count all the trips to a campus site, Capella would work out to have about the same face-to-face contact as the old Sarasota program.
I hope this is helpful?

 

David M,

ALthough a doctorate in one of the licensure areas of Psychology will provide higher levels of status, income and long term benfit it is also more difficult to obtain for reasons that have been discussed ad infinitum in this and other threads.

A doctorate in counseling, although presenting limitations, has the advantage of enabling one to be referred to as doctor, allows clinical practice and licensure, is less rigorous in terms of internships and practicums.In addition, the national exams and state licensure protocols are easier then the one in Psychology and the time to complete the program usually requires less time.

The questions to ask are you willing to invest at lest five years of time and meet the competitive standards required for APA internships? Since you mention concern with the GRE, will your scores, even with preparation, be sufficiently competitive to gain admission in to an APA doctoral program?
Are you interested in administering and interpreting assessment batteries which is a significant component of a Psychologist's work or are you primarily interested in counseling, with less emphasis on testing? Do you have aptitude for inferential statistics and advanced research methodology which is the backbone of Ph.d programs in Psychology? Since you have a masters in counseling, in your gut, would it be an easier transition and a more comfortable fit to enter a doctoral program in counseling?

These questions and many others may enable you to clarify your educational/career direction. As you are aware,its not only the extrinsic benefits of a specific degree, such as psychology, but what suits one's personal needs and individual goals no matter how good a field like psychology appears.

Good luck!

 

Here I go - gotta ask. How about a CCU PhD in Psychology if you live in California?

 

John,

I would suggest directly contacting the California Board of Psychology and inquiring re: the current status of CCU in meeting their criteria for state licensure. California has been moving towards RA of their state accredited schools, although I hear that some state approved schools were grandfathered and may not be required to follow this path.

Keep in mind, that obtaining a state approved degree in California will not enable one to practice in other states. Check on this as well if you contact the California board.

Good luck!

 

Thanks for the TIP. I called CCU after I posted my request and was told in fact, a CCU PhD in Psychology WILL qualify someone for state licensure in CA only. But for someone who lives in CA, it may be an alternative.

 

Excellent feedback, Simon. Thanks! Your suggested questions really helped me to gain more clarity regarding my career goals/directions. In fact, the suggested articles from David in the APA Monitor were real eye-openers, too.

With a graduate degree in counseling and 30 additional hours, I'm not willing to change tracks and commit to another 5 years necessary for a clinical psychology degree. Quite frankly, I don't have the time nor money. In fact, I'm already eligible for counseling licensure with 3 years of supervised field experience which, by the way, can be earned in my current employment setting as a school counselor. The PhD would simply put me into a higher income bracket and provide better marketability as a private therapist at some point.

Although heading back to GSU is an option, I'm now considering the PhD in Human Services with a specialization in Professional Counseling from Capella vs the EdD in Counseling Psychology from Argosy. Although its costly, I may be able to finish up their degree within a little over 2 years in consideration of transfer credit- something of which I don't think GSU will allow. Moreover, I can't imagine having to make all of those trips down to Sarasota to complete 8 of their courses in residence.

Again, thanks for the feedback. It was very helpful.

Best,
David

 

Hello irat,

I believe you may be thinking of school- as opposed to educational psychology. Educational psychology programs are not APA approved whereas school psychology programs may be. Educational psychology is APA Division 15 and School Psychology is Division 16. Graduates of school psychology programs frequently take clinical internships and obtain (small c) clinical licensure. This is not the case for persons trained in educational psychology.

 

Hello again,

I'm glad you found the articles I referenced interesting. I do think they are eye-openers and should be required reading for all aspiring psychologists. David, may I be Devil's advocate for a moment, and I'm really not trying to be a wiseguy when I ask ... why bother? You've already completed the requirements for counselor licensure and I wonder whether you'll ever recoup the investment if you go on in counseling. I can certainly understand aspirations but I wonder if, since you work in the school systems, you might be better off pursuing upward mobility in educational administration. One of my friends is a classroom teacher who has her EdD in special education and she has just recently completed the requirements for her principal's license. Her star is on the rise and I cajole her with the idea that if she isn't careful she is going to wind up superintendant of a large school system making very big bucks. Most of my friends who are in private practice, attorneys and psychologists, envy her opportunities.

 

Hi David,

Although what you state has merit, the primary issue revolves around an individual's personal and professional interests, goals, values, personal characteristics and attributes that will make certain fields of study more or less attractive, and in turn, affect his/her motivation to pursue. It is not sufficient to recommend specific fields based on availability of jobs and opportunities or to not consider a particular profession due to questionable future employment possibilities. Each of us has to make our own decisions based on a careful consideration of a number of factors including the ones noted above.

In addition to finding a particular profession appealing however,there are also realisitic job market issues that need to be considered in planning future goals. Therefore, it is imperative that prior to anyone leaping into any educational program that they conduct a comprehensive review of the employment outlook data for specific occupations of interest to enhance their level of information which will enhance their ability to make a realistic educational/career decision.

 

David, you've posed some very interesting thoughts, here. Yes, I've considered, "why bothering", with a PhD in counseling and have considered something like higher education administration or organizational psychology...in fact, I've even considered doing an MBA or a master's in human resourse management...anything that could open up other career opportunities. I'm going to look further into this. Thank you for your thoughts.

Best always,
David

 

Hi David M,

I wish you the best in whatever field you decide to pursue. These, as you know, are difficult times for professionals in counseling and mental health in general, in terms of employment opportunities and in levels of earnings, etc.

In addition, the other question many of us would benefit from asking is whether the educational programs we are considering,such as counseling, educational administration, organizational psychology or any other, is congruent with our typologies, interests, value systems, needs for status, aptitudes and abilities, as well as ones' personal and familial needs and responsibilities and compatability with our pursuit with avocational interests and hobbies outside of work. As an example,if one wishes to pursue educational administration, the question to ask is whether they wish to perform the tasks and roles intrinsic to this field which is antithetical to those involved in counseling and other direct clinical fields. The same factors need to be considered regarding pursuing an MBA, a degree in Organizational Psychology or other potential fields of study which differ in function and focus from one another and require different sets of attributes and skills.

The bottomline for all of us is finding a field which will meet many of our intrinsic and extrinsic needs but also will hopefully provide satisfaction, feelings of accomplishment, a comfortable fit and adjustment as well as a desire to continue in the profession we select without subsequent regrets or burnout due to selecting a field that is incompatible with who we are.

Happy holidays!

 

Thank you, Simon, for the very insightful feedback. It reminded me of all the things I taught in career counseling as a post graduate student at the University of Alabama at Birmingham and subsequently, should be applying to myself. ha! By the way, are you in the helping profession as well?

The thing that really struck me was the importance of looking at those things of which hold intrinsic value...the things that are congruent with the self. I don't think I would fit in in the corporate world nor do I have the desire to become a principal. I would simply like to further my knowledge and skills as a counselor and perhaps, one day supervise other counselors in a school or mental health setting, open a private practice and possibly teach graduate school. Perhaps, I need to be looking for a counselor education and supervision program.

Again, thanks for the feedback. It really helped me gain some clarity around the things that are important to me and reaffirmed that counseling is a good fit.

Best,
David

 

David,
If you want fulfillment may I suggest you avoid the mental health system in alabama. I worked as a director of a unit in North Alabama - they simply prostitute medicaid and do very little therapy.

Also good to see another UAB grad among the board.

BS - Accounting 1977
MBA - 1984

Go Blazers - why were we not in a bowl game at 7-4: because we aren't the Crimson Tide at 6-5.

------------------
Howard Rodgers

 

Hi Simon,

Thanks for the very insightful feedback. You've really helped me to take a much closer look at what holds a high degree of intrinsic value for myself. In order to take on the rigor of a PhD program, I want to feel passionately about it. Because I'm interested in the further development of my skills as a counselor, the possibility of supervising other counselors in a school or mental health agency, opening up a private practice and maybe teaching graduate school, perhaps, I need to be looking into a counselor education and supervision program.

Again, thanks for helping me to see things a little more clearly. By the way, are you in the helping profession as well? Your input reminded me of all the things I taught in career counseling as a post grad student at the University of Alabama at Birmingham...stuff I should be applying to myself. ha!

Best,
David

 

Howard, I can relate to your statement about the mental health system in north alabama. I worked in a private psychiatric hospital, here, in Atlanta for a while and was astonished in almost every aspect of the job. For example, patients were miraculously cured when insurance ran out! That's when I realized it wasn't about therapy...it was about running a business.

By the way, I didn't graduate from UAB, I earned 30 hours of post graduate course work in counseling while I lived there. My master's is from good ole' Georgia State University.

David

 

Hi David M,

As you know, advising or encouraging a poster to pursue a specific field or to attend a specific school is obviously well intended. The problem is that every person is unique and what is a "good fit" for one, is not necessarily for another. We are all confronted by varying degrees of internal and external factors that can make or break our achieving goals and that is why I have raised this point in a number of my postings.

Due to our uniqueness it is not beneficial, regardless of sincere motivations to be helpful, to encourage a poster, who we do not know, to follow our 'road map" to success! As a hypothetical example, "If I can complete a doctorate in a specific field of study at university X than you should do so to"! The danger in providing such specific direction is that none of us are aware of the issues, strengths, limitations, level of motivation, and other personal variables that are confronting individual posters. Good will is not sufficient in itself but an understanding that our success or failure in a particular educational program or occupation, does not lead to the conclusion that the "next guy" will experience the same!

Best of luck !