Chief Justice Roy Moore at Oak Brook College of Law and Government Policy

DaveHayden,

I think David's amusing introduction of Admiral Poindexter and Lieutenant Colonel North into this conversation was intended to belittle either me, AMU/APUS, or both. I responded by stating that I would much rather listen to a speech from either Poindexter or North than one from some United States-hating phony. I'll stand by that.

Oliver North convicted of:

1. Aiding and abetting the obstruction of Congress.
2. Destroying government documents.
3. Receving an illegal gratuity (a home security system).

However, the U.S. Court of Appeals in Washington, D.C:

Set aside the convictions for deceiving Congress and receiving an illegal gratuity. The conviction for destroying government documents was overturned.

 

No negitive conotation was ment to you or AMU from me. So do you think he did not commit the acts specified? It seems to me he certainly did so plus more. Again, not some one I would listen to for even for a few minutes. The ultra-right wing seems much like the ultra-left wing to me; full of hot air.

 

DaveHayden,

Oliver North played his assigned role in the fight against Marxist communism. I am in no position to cast stones at him. I watch his Fox News show occasionally.

One might even make the case that Oliver North's problems were caused by President Jimmy Carter.

"Alejandro Martinez's not only claims that it was the Carter CIA that tried to recruit him to head up a nascent American-supported Nicaraguan paramilitary movement even before Reagan was inaugurated but also accuses Carter of having caused the problem in the first place. This supports and even partly documents both the editor's own findings in a separate study that dates Carter-era involvement with what was to become the Contra project even further back to early August of 1980, and the conclusion that Carter, not Reagan, was the real father of the Contras."

p. 276 WHEN THE AK-47'S FALL SILENT: Revolutionaries, Guerillas, and the Dangers of Peace. Edited by Timothy Brown

 

Uh, now I'm confused. Never mind my opinion of Mr North, I'm startled to hear that he fought against Marxist communism. That's the really bad kind, right?

 

I, too, am confused. Do you believe he did the crimes specified or not? Is it ok for people in the Admistration to break the law or not? Who gets to judge who the laws apply to and who they don't? Thanks.

 

Originally posted by Uncle Janko

Uh, now I'm confused. Never mind my opinion of Mr North, I'm startled to hear that he fought against Marxist communism. That's the really bad kind, right?

Uncle Janko,

Why are you confused? Do you disagree as to whether Oliver North fought communism? Do you think writing "Marxist communism" was redundant. Yes, I think Marxism is intrinsically evil?

Initially posted by DaveHayden

I, too, am confused. Do you believe he did the crimes specified or not?

Yes he broke the law, although there were mitigating circumstances. Oliver North was found guilty, and the convictions were later set aside and overturned.

Is it ok for people in the Admistration to break the law or not?

No.

Who gets to judge who the laws apply to and who they don't? Thanks.

North was held accountable under the law.

Some quotes from Peggy Noonan's When Character was King - A Story of Ronald Reagan:

"Reagan waived executive privilege so Poindexter and North could testify. Reagan called for an independent counsel to determine if laws had been broken. There wer calls for the president to pardon Poindexter and North, but he wouldn't, saying the law must take its course"

"Those are all the facts. Here are some truths. one is that I think Reagan's goose was cooked from the moment he heard of the torture of William Buckley from the moment he met with relatives of all the other hostages, Buckley was a patriot, a good man who would die for the country and now could not be rescued by it. The others were innocents. Americans imprisoned and abused.

It all gnawed at Reagan. And everyone around him knew it. I do not doubt that McFarlane, Poindexter and North, whatever their personal or professional flaws or misjudgments, thought they were following the president's desires if not his directives. He wanted to save the hostages. And everyone knew he wanted to help the prodemocracy anti-Communist guerrillas in Nicaragua."

"In the end, the Democrats of Congress, eager to capitalize on the seeming wildness of the actions taken by Lt. Colonel North, held public and televised hearings to grill him. Instead he grilled them back, made a spirited defense of himself, his colleagues and his president, and the Democrats retreated in some disarray. North went on to run for the Senate in Virginia, lost and now has a radio show.
In the end, the prodemocracy freedom fighters, the contras of Nicaragua, held on and triumphed: The Communist Sandinista government fell, and democratic elections were held.
In the end, it became clear that for all the misjudgments and foolishness of the Iran initiative, none of Reagan's men was motivated by low motives -- by a desire for money or the desire for partisan gain; their lowest motive seems to have been a desire for the applause that follows a triumph against the odds. They wanted to get the hostages back. Good reasons for bad actions, but bad actions none the less."

When Character was King - A Story of Ronald Reagan

Bottom line. I would not be bothered if Oliver North or John Poindexter spoke at my university. As an aside, according to BG 15, Oliver North was awarded an honorary doctorate from Liberty University.

 

I guess I am an overly simplistic person I don't think any member of the Armed forces or Administration should break the law despite their politics or extenuating cirmcumstances.

While I think Carter was one of the greatest presidents ever (in spirit not results), I also respect Bush. Is it any wonder neither Republans nor Democrats want talk politics with me?