Can illegal immigrants receive social security benefits?

No, they can't. You have to be a citizen or a legal resident. People here illegaly pay into the system, but cannot collect it.

 

Abner, if an illegal alien steals the identity of an American and then pays into the American's social security account, it does not entitle the illegal alien to collect the American's social security benefits. It's call (1) identity theft and (2) financial fraud. It's a criminal offense.

 

Most do not steal the identity of an American. If they do, it can be detected by ICE, who works in conjunction with agencies like social service and other government agencies. I know because I worked for social services. So that dispels that myth. I was also trained on how to spot fake permanent resident cards. I can tell the difference between legit permanent resident card as opposed to legit ones. Illegal folks also cannot collect unemployment.

Also. An person who is here illegally cannot collect welfare benefits.

 

Abner, please peruse the following articles:

• IRS Documented 1.3 million Identity Thefts by Illegal Aliens: https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/irs-documented-13m-identity-thefts-illegal-aliens-cant-say-it
  
• Mexican man assumes American's identity for 37 years, steals $361,000 in government benefits: http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-identity-theft-20180302-story.html
• DACA Recipients Should Make Restitution to Their American Identity Theft Victims: https://cis.org/Mortensen/DACA-Recipients-Should-Make-Restitution-Their-American-Identity-Theft-Victims

The United States is a nation of rules and laws -- at least in legislative theory.

 

A few years ago in Canada the auditor General has a news release about there being millions more SSN/SIN than workforce. Immigrants were being accused of gaming the system. Anyway, the explanation was easy parents were enrolling there new born for SSN/SIN to take advantage of the education savings plan.
Immigrants gaming the system do happen but not to the extent of what meagain may want to believe. I can tell you this, immigrants detest immigrants who game the system, like collecting welfare and working etc. however, when it come to working for a living most people are very supportive of helping immigrants find employment.

 

Abner:

• How do illegal aliens pay into the social security system?
• Are you saying that they legally obtain social security numbers (and corresponding identities) to pay into the social security system?

Abner, that's excellent! That means you'll be able to answer simple questions.

 

What I say during my government days is telling. The ones who collect benefits are easily caught. If an undocumented person tries to collect on someone elses social security number, it will come in the computer as two names. This draws attention because the parties are contacted. The person with the true identity wil

I never said there aren't any cases where of identity theft occurs. But they are few and far between in comparison to the overall picture. The average immigrant pays in to the system and never collects. They send money home and eventually go back to their without collecting.

Most of the immigrants don't know English or have the resources to commit identity theft in order to collect social security. Most are eventually caught by the IRS investigations unit and have to pay restitution and serve prison time.

 

I'm sure answers to this can be Googled. I just note that personally I have a valid SSN number and currently no status in US (beyond temporary visitor one I get each time I cross the border in port of entry, usually at the Peace Bridge, visa-free on my Canadian passport). I don't pay into social insurance, naturally, since the last time I worked in US was 2008 (with legal permission). Approximately half of undocumented people are visa overstays; if some of them were seasonal workers or students on a visa, they could have got valid SSNs. Rules change constantly, so it's entirely possible some got SSNs through temporary loopholes. Finally, I'm not sure what SSA does when it gets funds attached to entirely bogus number on a fake SSN card; my hunch is it keeps the money. And finally, how many people who work on stolen (often with original SSN recipient's permission) SSNs would dare to collect the benefits, risking exposure? I'd say it's a vanishingly small number.

The simple fact is most (I'd say, almost all) people who rely on safety net are natural born citizens. True in Canada, true in US. As for social security, undocumented immigrants pay an estimated $12B into the system, even though most will not see the benefits.

 

Abner, which of the following are you saying:

• (a) Illegal aliens are paying into the social security system under their real names, but (b) they are not allowed to collect social security. [Part (a) of this answer is false, but part (b) is true. Click here and scroll down to lines 8, 9 & 10 in the introduction for an answer]

• Legal immigrants are legally paying into the social security system and they are allowed to collect social security. [This answer is true. Click here and here for corroboration]

• Other answer (please explain)

 

I'm not Abner, but how well did you read that Study? Footnote 3 in the article you linked says the following:

"An estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants reside in the United States (Passel and Cohn 2010), and many of them participate in the labor force and contribute to Social Security. The Social Security Administration estimated that taxes paid into Social Security by undocumented immigrants exceeded benefits paid out by $12 billion in 2007 (Goss and others 2013)."

...which not just confirms what Abner said to begin with. It's an exact same statement. Are you debating this point by linking an article that actually makes this point, or conceding it?

 

Mr. Stanislav, what you have written is correct. However, if you read further, you will note that illegal immigrants who dupes an employer into illegally paying money into the social security system -- does not justify an illegal alien from eventually collecting social security benefits. However, it is true that there are illegal aliens who are illegally duping the U.S. system; but it's becoming increasing difficult to dupe the system, due to a continued merging of biometrics, court documents, statewide databases and federal databases.

 

My understanding is that even if one is undocumented in the USA, one still pays taxes through an SSN, his/her own SSN. One of the main SSN’s designed waS to collect taxes, not to determined citizenship. Meagain your problem is going to the extreme, you ignore the empirical evidence when it does not suit you. Then you take an extreme position with a nugget of truth in it to make a point. One of the realities, which is undeniable is that most economics immigrants take almost any step to work to earn a living. (you can make whatever you want from that statement). There is also a flipside; some immigrants like to game the system by working and collecting assistance – Everyone I know thinks this is an outrage.

 

"Illegally duping an employer" is your elegant way to refer to a situation where an undocumented worker earns wages, from which payroll deductions are paid - including social security deductions. The fact that the worker is not eligible to receive the benefits later means that his labour benefits U. S. citizens and legal residents by helping fund social security fund - without drawing from it. It follows that mass deportation preferred by the more gullible in Trumpy camp will lead to harm to the solvency of the SSA fund - which is something both Trump and so called "fiscal conservative" Republicans claim to care about (lying, as always).

But I like your style. Work on the coherence of your "arguments" and earn some kind of graduate degree, and you could get a position with the Center of Immigration Studies. They share both your biases and your special relation with facts and sound logic.

Incidentally, this whole line of reasoning shows that anti-Immigrant sentiment has very little to do with concern for economic welfare of Americans, and much more to do with anxiety about demographic and racial changes. With more than a hint of racism. It also has very little to do with "rule of law" sentiment, or CIS would not be equally obsessed with "birth tourism", "visa mills" and "H1 visa abuses" - all of which are legal behaviour under current law. That's why formerly bipartisan efforts like "Gang of Eight" or all the recent DACA proposed compromises (all of which include strengthening of border security) are such a third rail for Republicans and have zero chance in Congress (even when adding things that could genuinely curb undocumented employment - like mandatory E-Verify). Ironically, Trump is uniquely positioned to wrangle congress to pass a law on immigration, which would be right-of-center AND will give him a "win" on his stupid wall, AND a genuine accomplishment for his eventual legacy. He went so far as to grab hostages in DACA kids and the border families; these things, horrible as they are, give him leverage. But the supposed "master of the deal" chronically can't close the deal. SAD!

 

Except the vast majority of system gamers would be native-born and other documented individuals. Simply because they are significantly better positioned to take advantage of any loopholes. This is also pretty hard to deny.
Listen, I keep hearing about immigrants abusing welfare here in generous Ontario. I also know A LOT of fellow immigrants, of various means, in US, Canada, and a few in EU, Australia and the UK. I've seen people gaming IMMIGRATION regulations, but am yet to meet a SINGLE person who relies on abusing welfare system in lieu of working. Only vague rumors that anyone somewhere may be doing it. Every single person I met, of various abilities and educational backgrounds, was a hard worker. And oh BTW, the only guy I know who won the much-maligned Green Card Lottery is a scientist with a PhD, dozens of publications, worked in national labs, now tenure track at a major school. "They don't send their best people".

 

Mr. Stanislav, based on your logic, an illegal drug trafficker is also earning his illegal wages.

 

Phdtobe, no, not legally. Valid social security numbers are not issued to illegal aliens. If an illegal alien obtains a social security number, then it was done so fraudulent and in violation of U.S. law.

 

You're not very good at logic, me again, again. Undocumented person "dupes" the employer into paying him wages, and into remitting deductions, by performing his assigned work for said employer. That's not what normal people would call "duping". Your sloppy fallacies are not even good enough for the CIS; they try hard not to appear completely deranged.

 

Wrong. Many, indeed, presumably use made up or someone else's SSN (effectively forfeiting future benefits; please kindly acknowledge this Abner's original point. Stop dancing around it). Yet, as I said, others are visa overstays with valid SSNs (numbers don't expire) - for example, failed asylum claimants, farm hand visa overstays, international students, lapsed fiancée visa holders, H1B lottery losers. Each of these people may have held work authorisation in the past (as had I and my wife, except we didn't overstay) and got legit SSN numbers (as did I, and have a few current credit cards in US banks that I use from time to time when I travel, and a spotless credit history tied to that SSN). No fraud. Finally, around 3 million tax returns are filed annually without SSN (with a so called ITIN number anyone can get), most presumably by undocumented migrants. In this case, either they are self employed, or their employer broke regulations by not requiring a valid SSN and filled I-9 form - but again, no fraud. As most Americans talking about immigration, you don't have a clue.

 

You are correct, what I wanted to refer to was Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN). I did US taxes many years ago. However, my understanding, if an undocumented wanted to pay taxes he or she could do it through a TIN, not the SSN.