"By going to a non-aacsb business school, you are taking a huge risk."

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by -kevin-, Jan 4, 2009.

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  1. -kevin-

    -kevin- Resident Redneck

    Jayzee, in another thread you make the statement above.

    Could you elaborate on the "huge risk"? For instance; specific profession, quality of education, etc...
     
  2. Jayzee

    Jayzee New Member

    Let me elaborate by giving you an example: a very good friend of mine just completed his PhD at a good BUT non-aacsb business school (I will send u the exact name in private message). The PhD took him about 4 years, and I personally witnessed the amount of hard work and effort that he put into his studies. Once he was done, he began applying at some 4 year schools. Half of those didn't even reply. The other half told him they needed someone with a PhD from an aacsb-accredited university. As a result, he is still teaching at the same community college where he was teaching for the last 8 years.

    Moral of the story: if you are doing all the hard work and efforts for a doctorate in the field of business, please do it from an aacsb accredited school. Without that, you are seriously decreasing your chances of getting a tenure-track position at a business school.

    Now, some people might say that they were still able to get a TT position after doing a non-aacsb doctorate. Fine, good for you. But if you look at the total numbers, you will find that such cases are rare. More an exception rather than the norm.

    Funny thing is that many of these non-aacsb schools, when they advertise any teaching positions, insist on candidates who have degrees from aacsb school. Isn't that ironic?
     
  3. -kevin-

    -kevin- Resident Redneck

    But your example only goes to the field of academia. A field that most of us would readily agree could require a doctorate from an AACSB accredited school.

    I think the reality is that you would face the issue of a DL doctorate regardless of the accreditation. Search for the user name "Han" for a discussion of the AACSB Grenoble program.

    I believe that we should all temper our expectations with a large dose of reality. DL programs: executive programs, external programs, etc... all are suspect in the realm of academia.

    My point being that there isn't a huge risk if one understands the potential for limitation.

    A search on the forum will show we have discussed this very issue at length.

    Best of luck to your friend. He should be proud of his accomplishment and not focus on the lack of a position at an AACSB school.
     
  4. Jayzee

    Jayzee New Member

    True, my discussion was focused on the premise that the candidate is looking for a job in academia. However, I disagree when you say that there is a general bias against DL in academia. True, there is some, but not extremely widespread. I have myself been on several hiring committees to hire TT faculty at both community College and Univ. level. The focus is on aacsb accreditation. For instance, one of the committees once rejected an application from a UoP Phd, and they called one candidate who got a DL aacsb Doctorate from Univ of Surrey.
     
  5. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I agree with this statement as most of the advertised positions require an AACSB accredited doctorate so this seems to be the trend for the academic market.

    The questions is what to do with a non AACSB accredited doctorate? I recently have posted a thread about the possibility of getting a Post doc certificate from a AACSB accredited University as a way to break into the tenure track world.

    Since most of the positions call for doctorates rather than Post-docs, Can a Post-doc from AACSB school do the trick?
     
  6. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    Of course, but one is looking for a Doctoral degree to full-fill their job requirement. Therefore, it doesn't need AACSB; but you have the point.
     
  7. Han

    Han New Member

    Hey all. I will put in my two cents.

    I was in indsutry. My employer required AACSB accreditation for graduate work. They didn't have a clue about what it all meant, just someone put it in there. Most of industry that I have experienced is that they don't understand accreditation, but do understand DL.... and not in a good light.

    I made the jump as I finished my degree, and was able to secure a tenured track position at an AACSB school, only with an AACSB degree.

    With all other things being equal, meaning if both an AACSB and a non-AACSB program is possible (meeting all your tuition, residency, etc requirements), go with the AACSB school - as it opens more doors. But each person needs to weigh it for themselves.

    The only unfortunate part is I have seen many post here and other places (and IRL), stating they received an RA degree, and think the system should be changed, especially with RA schools requiring AACSB degrees, and their degrees being seen s inferior to AACSB degrees..... just know how it works now, and realize what your degree will do for you and not do for you.
     
  8. Han

    Han New Member

    Also, Kevin points out a good point. Accreditiation is not the only issue...... US schools can think international schools are inferior. Most had not heard of Grenoble, but checked the AACSB website to see if I met minimum requirements. PT programs are an issue to some, as well as limited residency.

    I say this with a bit of sarcasm - the people on the hiring committee are usually those nearing retirement, and they, almost exclusively, did full time on campus programs at schools in the US ranked in US News - that is what they know and anything outside the box is not seen as a good thing. It makes the hiring process more difficult, but if you can get in the door for an interview, all of this can be explained in a good light - espcially since some US schools are looking to partner with international schools.
     
  9. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

     
  10. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Not sure if I agree with this one. A person with a PhD from the University of Toronto or University of Cambridge would have no problem getting a tenure track position in the US. There might be some Universities with some narrow minded hiring committees that don't know nothing outside their little world but you wouldn't want to work there anyways.

    The Grenoble program is very new and only have graduated very few compared to the hundreds that Capella and NCU have graduated but a small google search already shows that their graduates have been able to land full time teaching positions so there is evidence of strong acceptance of this degree in the US context:

    http://www.moody.louisiana.edu/joomla/index.php/profile?task=userProfile&user=75
    http://business.fiu.edu/Spotlights/faculty_experts.cfm?FlagDirectory=Display&User=2608579
    http://campusapps.fullerton.edu/news/inside/2007/faculty/fac4.html
    http://www.usm.edu/graduatestudies/document/gradfac_bycollege_cob.doc
    http://www.cuw.edu/AdultEd_Graduate/ae/catalog/faculty.html
     
  11. JimLane

    JimLane New Member

    To bring a "real world" context to this, as opposed to academia, I would prefer hiring a regionally-accredited bachelor's candidate who had made his previous employer several million dollars OVER ANY freshly-minted MBA from any AACSB school.

    The only places AACSB accreditation have ANY impact is in academia and in an out-of-the-gate hiring. Otherwise, it IS ALL ABOUT what you did for your previous employer and what you can do for us. Experience will trump degrees again and again.


    j.
     
  12. Scott Henley

    Scott Henley New Member

    Agreed. But Toronto and Cambridge are internationally known universities that existed before AACSB was founded. They can carry themselves on their excellent reputation. Toronto is AACSB-accredited and I'm sure that Cambridge will be before too long. Oxford is a member of AACSB, though not accredited yet.

    I think that if your goal is teaching tenure-track at a university business school, then AACSB is the only way to go. To invest 4-6 years for a doctorate and then to be refused a position because your degree is not AACSB-accredited would be a heartbreaking. Do the research first and then find the best AACSB school that you can afford. For those that have started their doctorate in a non-AACSB school, it MAY be worth it to switch schools before you invest too much time.

    As far as industry is concerned, don't kid yourself, they know about AACSB. Eventually, just as they look to see if engineering degrees are accredited, they will soon look for AACSB accreditation for business and accounting programs.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2009
  13. -kevin-

    -kevin- Resident Redneck

    Not until such time as AACSB has penetrated into all local and state colleges/universities or legal requirements drive the need. (As with ABA or ABET.) Local schools provide a sustainable workforce and the success of these schools in providing quality applicants to industry might outweigh the need to pursue additional accreditation. A small school will have a tough time meeting many of the AACSB accreditation requirements.

    An interesting side note. The University of Alabama in Huntsville (AACSB) offered an MS in Administration. The University of North Alabama offered the MBA. UAH recently renamed the MS-Admin to an MBA and offered to replace previous graduates' diplomas with an MBA diploma. UNA is now pursuing AACSB. Nothing like a little competiton to stir things up.
     
  14. tcmak

    tcmak New Member

    I think this is rather limited to US, but not any other part of the world. US is not the whole world here. :)

     
  15. foobar

    foobar Member

    moody - appears to be regular tenure-track faculty
    fullerton - lecturer - possibly tenure-track but not a professorial rank that a doctorate would normally warrant
    fiu - clinical faculty - not tenure trackand teaches in area more closely related to his law degree
    usm - appears to be regular faculty
    cuw - adult education at an external location?

    These are not the kind of positions to which new AACSB doctoral graduates would aspire. Would my university hire a Grenoble graduate? I believe that they would get much further in the hiring process than an NCU or Capella grad.

    I also think that we might promote a lecturer already teaching for us to tenure-track with a Grenoble degree, but not Capella or NCU.
     
  16. dl_mba

    dl_mba New Member

    Can you send me a link that tells they(UNA) are pursuing AACSB accreditation?

     
  17. -kevin-

    -kevin- Resident Redneck


    The best I can do is the following:

    http://business.una.edu/siteg/deansmessage.php

    "Enhanced accreditation for College of Business programs"

    I had an email from Dr. Gatlin but didn't save it as it really doesn't matter to me. The additional accreditation won't do anything for me and wasn't a concern for me. I'm sure you can contact him directly and he will tell you where they are at in the process. He seems like a pretty decent fellow.
     
  18. Han

    Han New Member

    First, not all of these people are in the business school - the adult education department is different and not AACSB accredited. Second, it appears at least one, maybe others are not tenure track (lecturer is not tenure track). I can tell you FIRST HAND the comments I received from committees, which were very gracious in telling me their concerns. One was that "US schools are superior to international schools". My CV was flagged, though it didn't completely shut the door. I made sure to put that it was AACSB - on the CV, so there was no issues.
     
  19. Han

    Han New Member

    Could not disagree more....... NCU and Capella grads would not get their foot in the door...... nor past initial screening in the hiring committee - with the schools that are AACSB - maybe in the non-AACSB areas - like extended education, ytes, but not in the business school at an AACSB school. They do not make initial screening.
     
  20. Han

    Han New Member

    There are several business professional accreditors, did he say specifically AACSB?
     

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