Ashford University vs Calsouthern (PsyD)

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Garp, May 21, 2020.

  1. Garp

    Garp Active Member

    If I read this correctly Ashford University PsyD is approximately twice the cost of Calsouthern. Both are Regionally Accredited and not APA accredited.

    Ashford: Approx 67,000

    Calsouthern: Approx 35,970

    I wondered about the difference when I saw someone enrolled at Ashford and either did not know or did not remember they had a PsyD.

    That is a significant difference. It is important to do due diligence before enrolling in any program. Don't just jump at the one that seems best advertised or is hard selling you (not implying Ashford does this).
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
  2. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    They're materially different degrees. Ashford's PsyD, originally from the University of the Rockies which was co-owned with then merged into Ashford, has in the core all students take three courses in leadership and only one introductory course in psychopathology. Titled specialization options include Educational Leadership and Industrial Organizational Psychology.

    Cal Southern's PsyD has no apparent titled specializations, and was designed specifically to meet course requirements for California licensure for psychology, the mental health profession. (The California Board of Psychology administers requirements additional to those course requirements including a one-year supervised professional experience [internship] suitable to the board. California is an outlier in U.S. psychology licensure, and no one should count on transferring any given California license to another state or country by reciprocity.)
  3. Garp

    Garp Active Member

    Thanks Jonathan. Did not know about the U of Rockies merger.

    Calsouthern may meet the requirements for a number of other State Psychology Licensure Boards since most states do not require APA (just Regional Accreditation).

    Calsouthern seems to offer the least expensive route to becoming a Clinical Psychologist. Though as has been mentioned before, not having APA cuts you out of very competitive jobs and does not necessarily put it at the top of the respect category among Psychologists (as witnessed on the Student Doctor forum SDN).
  4. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    I wouldn't base much on what the Student Doctor Forum thinks about this or anything else for that matter. Their member base generally has a strong disdain for online education, or any kind of educational experience that doesn't align exactly with very outdated thinking, and they attack people relentlessly. Many of their members are close-minded, and most of them think they're geniuses despite posting some of the dumbest things. One time a guy who earned a Doctorate in Clinical Psychology came looking for a way to pick up the state required clinical hours to practice because his program lacked them. He was just asking for solutions. Some moron responded and told him "You don't have a Doctorate in Clinical Psychology! Okay? You have a worthless piece of paper! Okay?" The rest of the responses weren't much better.

    That place is so toxic. It's like having a forum full of Levjerkoffs.

    In any case, my concern with Calsouthern's program is that they can put many people in the same situation I just talked about since (last time I checked about a year ago) they don't mandate in-person clinical training for what is a Clinical degree. Not everyone will realize the importance of that until it's too late.
  5. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    I know a Liberty CJ faculty with a PsyD in Criminology & Justice Studies from the University of the Rockies (now Ashford).
  6. Garp

    Garp Active Member

    True. Your statement, "That place is so toxic. It's like having a forum full of Levjerkoffs" is funny. There was one guy (erg something or other working for the Centene Corp) whose profile picture is a disheveled guy with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth. His sarcastic responses to people made me immediately think of Levicoff. I thought perhaps it is Levicoff in an alternate universe where he became a Psychologist.
  7. Garp

    Garp Active Member

    And SDN really goes after Alliant (for profit??) with approx a 200,000 price tag, not the greatest match rates according to data shared and if I recall only about 67% end up licensed. It is APA accredited.

    When people drop out of a program like that part way through you end up with significant debt.
  8. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    If your goal is to become a licensed psychologist, one's first step needs to be the licensing board for the state in which they hope to be licensed. If the degree is eligible for licensure in 49 states but not the one where you intend to live and work, it's useless to you. Capella grads seem well represented in the licensed psychology world, though a quick LinkedIn search shows me a good many of them are in Illinois where Capella may have aligned their curriculum to comply with state specific requirements. Still, you see them around. If your state requires APA then non-APA should not be in the running if that is your goal. If your state requires coursework that they don't offer then it's a non-starter. If your state specifically prohibits online education then even a degree from a respected school won't get you where you want to go.

    If you asked me for a school just based on reputation and their apparent desire to do this all up right, I'd say Adler tops my list. They have an on the ground APA accredited doctoral program and programmatic accreditation across the board for everything else.
  9. Jan

    Jan Member

    Many of CSU's students are not seeking licensure as a Psychologist in their respective states but are licensed in such field as Mental Health Counseling and Social Work, and plan to use the Psychology doctorate for title only.

    Also if one has previously completed doctoral level courses in Psychology or Counseling, they can transfer up to thirty credits into CSU's Psy.D program which will dramatically decrease the timeframe to complete the program as well as significantly reduce the total tuition.
  10. Garp

    Garp Active Member

    Yes, and that makes sense. For many therapists there would be little reward in going through a Psychology internship (3,000 hours?) and having to pass the Clinical Psych exam to be doing the same thing you are as an LPC or Licensed Clinical Social Worker. They simply want to add "Dr." and increase professional standing. I have also seen therapists with Graduate Theological Foundation (PsyD or PhD) or Louisiana Baptist University (PhD) for the same reason (attaching the degree to their name). I assume they want the degree, even if unaccredited, to have some credibility.
  11. Jan

    Jan Member

    The problem with PsyD degrees from unaccredited schools is that they are unacceptable to a number of state boards of professions. In such cases, using the title PsyD may be a violation of professional conduct due to misrepresentation to the public that one is a state licensed Psychologist.
  12. Garp

    Garp Active Member

    Generally (mostly), no unaccredited PsyD is going to be acceptable to State Licensing Boards for Psychology. Other Licensing Boards "may" require the doctorate be accredited AND in a field related to counseling, social work or psychology for it to be used professionally.

    The creation of the impression that one is a Psychologist is the same whether it is accredited or unaccredited when it is a PsyD. When you see someone doing therapy be they a Licensed Professional Counselor/Mental Health Counselor, Clinical Social Worker, or Chemical Dependency/Addictions counselor and they have a PsyD, you will likely assume they are a Clinical Psychologist. Not necessarily with a PhD. If I saw someone with an MD and called her "Dr." and she was talking to me about mental health or the physical and psychological issues related to addiction, I would assume they were a Psychiatrist.
  13. Jan

    Jan Member

    You are correct. That is the reason why a possessor of a RA Psy.D who is licensed as a Social Worker/ Mental Health Counselor needs to clearly, verbally and in an informed consent, relate the specific mental health discipline they are licensed in, NOT Psychology, and have the prospective client sign the Informed Consent document acknowledging their understanding this fact.

    Also in all advertising material and on business cards, it is necessary to list the PsyD after one's name but to also indicate the specific license of their professional practice (ex. LPC, LMHC, LCSW).
    Xspect and Garp like this.
  14. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Ashford is in Pyschology degree in leadership and organizational psychology, mainly for those already working in a corporate setting that want a PhD to apply for a higher position in HR or General Management. This field is unregulated and the lack of APA accreditation not a real issue as you are not going for a license. The typical PhD that offers the one size fits all. Also ideal for the person with a MS in Psychology that is already licensed but just needs a "ligth" PhD for teaching or credential boosting purposes.

    The other is not a PhD but PsyD, for many considered a lesser degree, more directed towards those who don't have a MS in Psychology but want a Psychology Doctorate mainly to qualify for a license or certification for private practice.

    The second one looks more rigorous although is not a PhD, mainly because it is meant to satisfy license requirements. The first one looks very light and your typical leadership PhD for admin positions.

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