Are degrees from conservative Christian schools like Liberty University toxic?

Thanks MO,

People you need to understand that you are talking down others ways and beliefs.

And TJ, you should be kicked for the way you reacted to MO. The guy is about as nice as they come. You just said you wanted to be a mod and now look at the way your acting!?!?!

 

While I think I understand your point, due to fairness I would have to add that not believing in the Bible (or the Book of Mormon on top of that, as you say...) could also be observable as a huge leap of faith in the opposite direction. It all depends on your starting perspective and who (not what) you believe. I would like to suggest that you should acknowledge that a nonbelieving person who doesn't want to pursue the end goals of Christianity (or specifically the LDS church) might look "crazy" to a Christian and that Christian might work hard to dissuade you from your "craziness".

See, this is why we learn to tolerate different points of view...

 

Oh, get over yourself with your scary threats. Just ban me, don't prattle on here about it like a quivering old school marm.

 

You better be careful. We extremist Liberty alumni and students might just have the inclination to burn you at the stake! :swordfight:

(Just kidding! Note: I do not condone torture or murder.)

 

Agreed. I can appreciate the secular humanist perspective. I've read some of the recent tomes from the "New Atheists," and I found them fairly well-argued (with the exception of Hitchens, who comes across as belligerent more than anything). Some of the Christian responses to these books are weak and unconvincing.

The primary philosophical reason I am a theist is the origin of the universe. It is unfathomable to me how matter could have emerged without any cause or could have existed for eternity. Of course, the idea that God has always existed is similarly taxing on my mental processes, but there is really no middle ground to choose. In this case, I can more easily accept the idea that God exists and caused the initial formation of matter rather than matter spontaneously generating.

The second reason is somewhat emotional. In my past, I have gone through periods of agnosticism, but I cannot shake the feeling that if there is no God or spiritual element in the universe, there is no ultimate purpose for anything. Certainly, we can derive pleasure from activities, and we can ascribe meaning to any number of tasks, but these seem illusory. Sure, a great career is enjoyable, but if after death I cease to exist, what purpose do I have in doing anything?

These arguments are by no means "airtight," and I don't think they will convince anyone (nor are they intended to do so), but for someone with my emotional and intellectual orientations, these thoughts are appealing.

 

I can respect your position, I went through a similar internal conflict. There's no good answer to either riddle: if the universe was created, how did it start? if God created the universe, how did God start? You can respond with "it always was" to either answer. I have to wonder if this need for an origin or birth is a limitation of our current hardware (our brains) or if it really is a paradox. I also understand the seductiveness of accepting a divine plan in lieu of the seeming despondency of a nihilistic alternative. However, I don't think any of the tenets of secular humanism are at all nihilistic -- quite the contrary: Council for Secular Humanism

 

I wonder the same thing regarding origins. Trying to contemplate how anything could have "always been" makes my head nearly explode.

I don't think secular humanism is necessarily nihilistic, but I do think I could be an atheist without also being a nihilist. If one can derive purpose from human activities and can be satisfied with them, nihilism won't be an option. However, if it is difficult to satisfy yourself with temporal activities, then without any spiritual or religious "meaning," what meaning is left? Some people won't have this issue, but I do. In many ways I envy those who are able to derive meaning from such tasks; I struggle to find meaning in most things I do.

 

I'm not sure that this is accurate. If we ask the question, "Why should I believe the universe began to exist?" we find several valid reasons (at least, I think they are valid reasons) in the categories of philosophical (ex, the impossibility of an actually infinite length of time) and scientific (ex, "Big Bang" cosmology points to a universe beginning approximately 15 billion years ago).

However, to the question "Why should I believe God began to exist?," I'm not sure (given the definition of God) that there are any comparable reasons to believe God began to exist? So I would say that we do have valid reasons to believe the universe is not eternal, but no such reasons to think that God (if God exists) is not eternal. If that's the case, then the "how did God start?" question would be unanswerable, but only because God did not start.

Note: This topic should probably be moved to the Off-Topic area, could one of the mods do that please?

 

You have started some interesting threads and made some great posts; it's too bad you are not able to control yourself.