Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by SBCMan, May 19, 2004.
Wow. I wish I had read this post before enrolling!
NTS is no more reputable today than the day it opened for business.
You know...I think there is a lot of room for vigorous debate about for-profits and their role in academia. I think that discussion should be fair and should include comparisons, especially around cost, to some of their non-profit equivalents but room for a debate nonetheless.
It baffles me, however, that schools like NTS, Trinity and LBU are never discussed in the public forum when we talk about consumer protection. If you're shelling out $2,500 for an associates degree, I have to question the target demographic there. I doubt they're after well paid professionals who just decided that they need an associates degree. People are being sold these programs and are being led to believe that they offer some meaningful credential when, in fact, they're being offered nothing that I cannot type up and print today. Yet, a quick search of LinkedIn shows that there are quite a few people using these degrees for non-religious settings. Some have also clearly earned their Board Certified Chaplain designation because, apparently, no one checked because that program requires degrees to be accredited. Secular employers are being duped and everyone seems fine with it as long as it has Bible in the name and isn't the University of Phoenix.
Edit: You remember when we did a LinkedIn search on LBU and came up with that person who got into Regent Law with a bachelors from LBU? And we were all split on whether this was someone who slipped through the cracks or whether Regent flexes for religious schools like LBU?
Here's another one: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peter-williams-24aa37a3/
Unless this profile is out of date this is someone whose undergrad is unaccredited but who has a Masters from Liberty.
I attended an accredited seminary several years ago. Each class involved going to 3 hours of lecture, a mid-term, a final, and a paper. Each class had at least two books to read, and also articles from peer-reviewed journals.
I don't know how a person could learn the same amount from reading one "text-book".
The tuition here is very attractive to the point of being seductive. This degree surely better than nothing, and people can graduate from Princeton or Harvard and not be able to connect with the average American. So, I think it could be ideal for a person who wants some amount of training before pastoring a 50 to 100 member church. I suspect that this degree would not ready someone for a PhD from Fuller or to do in depth exegesis.
My undergraduate degree was in theology to include 4 semesters of Greek and 2 semesters of Hebrew, which is more than this M.Div. requires...
Is it a diploma mill? Not exactly, at least you have to read several books. Is it the kind of degree that will make you an effective minister? Maybe. Will it be "respected" by any kind of academic community? Very Doubtful.
I posted a year ago, and just stopped by to once again say, NTS is little more than a degree mill.
I like your wording. A "little more than" a degree mill. I remember years ago whenthe lines were very clear. There were brick and mortar colleges and various "degree mills". One involved being in class 3 days a week, term papers, exams, etc. The other was "let's give you credit for life experience" or simply pay a fee and get your "degree"
Now days even state universities are having students review power points with teacher voice overs, respond to a question in a discussion group, and take an on line exam.
How many of your peers read every word in the assigned reading in the "brick and mortar" programs? I'm thinking that many of mine focused on what was said in class...
I don't know. I guess some people could do the NTS program and get little or nothing out of it. But if done correctly and honestly, I suspect one could learn as much or more than in a more traditional program.
No. Absolutely no. Outside of the vague and non-committal fictional scenario you’re describing... no. For legitimate educational institutions with regional accredidation, there’s a mountain of triangulated student learning outcome planning, reporting, and analyzing. Higher education, when properly done, is far more than the student/UX of presentations and an LMS.
Just for the sake of discussion. And honestly, I mean this in the most respectful way. Vonnegut, your post reflects some degree understanding of learning theory or involvement with higher education facility. Can I ask as to your degree level and type of work you are doing? I only ask because I have other follow-up questions which I would like to ask.
I’m a faculty member who only has a masters (Engineering), but worked my way into a Department Chair and now Dean role at a community college.
Separate names with a comma.