Anchor Babies (Birth Right Citizenship)

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by NorCal, Aug 4, 2010.

  1. NorCal

    NorCal Active Member

    I've always been curious to discover what everyone's overall opinions are regarding illegal aliens who sneak across our borders in order to have a baby on American soil in order to anchor themselves here in the US?

    Same question leads toward those who obtain citizenship here in the US in their 60's and then immediately file for Social Security benefits even thou they never paid into it?

    Do you think we need to evolve and change our laws in order to combat people who take advantage our our system?
  2. james_lankford

    james_lankford New Member

    its fine just the way it is

    the only evolving we need to do is legalize prostitution, gay marriage and marijuana

    oh, and fine businesses $ 50 000 for each illegal alien they employ and REALLY enforce it

    punish the employers for hiring illegal aliens and they'll stop hiring them,
    if they stop hiring then illegals will stop coming here
  3. Fortunato

    Fortunato Member

    It sounds like you have fallen for some right-wing media "dog whistles" designed to provoke ire in those who are ill-informed. There is no reason to tamper with birthright citizenship, and if you understood the history of it and the 13th and 14th amendments, you would know that those who propose its abolishment share an ideological common cause with those who would have denied citizenships to freed slaves after the civil war.

    There is no such thing as an "anchor baby". It doesn't work, you hear sob stories on the news all the time about parents who are being deported even though their children are citizens.

    Social Security is not connected to citizenship. People who are authorized to work in the US must pay into SS and are eligible to receive benefits (if they still live in the United States) when they reach retirement age regardless of whether or not they are citizens. Also, in order to receive social security benefits, you must work and pay taxes for at least ten years (40 "quarters", technically). Since SS benefits are based on the highest 35 years of earnings, someone who worked for just ten years would have 25 years @ $0 averaged into their benefit calculation, meaning that their benefit would be miniscule.

    You may be referring to SSI, or "Supplemental Security Income", a program that is managed by the Social Security Administration, but is not "Social Security" as most people know it. It is a program designed to keep those who are blind or disabled from becoming completely destitute. SSI's maximum benefit is $674 a month, and allows recepients to earn outside income of up to an additional $2000/year. I can't imagine there is a flood of folks coming to the US to get their citizenship and trying to live on just over $8K/year.

    If you want to do something about people who take advantage of our system, then do something about the fact that we are giving away subsidies to help rich yuppies buy electric cars and hybrids. Or do something about farm subsidies that have distorted our agricultural system is such a way that we have people going hungry in a country that produces three times more food than it consumes. Maybe get outraged over the fact that so-called financial reform does almost nothing to eliminate the risky behaviors that led to the current recession. But getting worked up because a couple of brown people are collecting $8K a year in disability benefits is just silly.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 4, 2010
  4. b4cz28

    b4cz28 Active Member

    "Share an ideological common cause with those who would have denied citizenships to freed slaves after the civil war."

    It sounds like you have fallen for some Left-wing media "dog whistles" designed to provoke ire in those who are ill-informed. Nice comments, you do what any leftist does when confronted with a comment about something you disagree with, you imply they are racist. This happens all the time. You buy the leftist media crap from CNN or MSNBC.

    " SSI's maximum benefit is $674 a month, and allows recepients to earn outside income of up to an additional $2000/year. I can't imagine there is a flood of folks coming to the US to get their citizenship and trying to live on just over $8K/year."

    You forget to add in HUD Section 8 housing with pays up to $800.00 a family for a house, or HUD programs whit subsidize home purchases for people on fixed incomes.
    Add in food stamps, free medical care. My best friend’s elderly grandfather just came here from Mexico; he worked his whole life and no retirement, no health care and has bad diabetes. After getting here he has had over a $100,000 worth of surgeries. He has a way better life than he did back in Mexico.. When I was working as a police officer we were starting to see a problem with Hospital dumping. Families would drive there elderly parents across the border and drop them off at an ER. We would get called out, we would then have to call Adult Protect Services and they would place them in a nursing home. Also you have to understand that where the OP and I live things are different. He is in Cali and I'm in Texas.

    "If you want to do something about people who take advantage of our system, then do something about the fact that we are giving away subsidies to help rich yuppies buy electric cars and hybrids."

    This is a joke right?

    "There is no such thing as an "anchor baby". It doesn't work, you hear sob stories on the news all the time about parents who are being deported even though their children are citizens."

    No, you hear about accidental deportations of Parent that have US children. Don't you remember that 8 year old that was giving a scripted question to ask Obama's wife?
    ICE said they do not deport parents of US children.
  5. Fortunato

    Fortunato Member

    I never called NorCal a racist. You read into my comment exactly what *you* wanted to hear. The principle of birthright citizenship was enshrined in our constitution over the protests of those who would have denied American citizenship to freed slaves and their children. The test for determining if someone is a citizen at birth is as elegant as it is simple - if they were born on US soil, they are citizens. Period.

    Those who would change that are those who seek to divide us. If birthright citizenship were to be revoked, what would that mean to the thousands (millions?) of current US citizens who enjoy their citizenship due to their birth here to foreign-born parents. What does it mean to their children? Their grandchildren?

    I'm in North Carolina. We have our fair share of immigrants here, too, both legal and illegal. In fact, I'm married to someone who immigrated here legally and became a US citizen as a child. But it's disingenuous to say that "things are different", anyway, because questions of citizenship and immigration are federal matters, with national relevance, not local issues.

    The social programs you're referring to are available to citizens and LEGAL residents of the US. I don't have a problem with people who are here legally utilizing our social safety net - if I were to emigrate legally to Canada, I would be able to participate in their national healthcare system. Were I to sneak into the Great White North, however, I would be responsible for my own healthcare tab. It's the same here. It's true that many healthcare providers (especially those in southern states) have issues with bad debt because of illegal immigrants who abuse emergency rooms for primary care, but that isn't relevant to the discussion of how to deal with those who are here legally.

    Your friend's grandfather certainly seems to be enjoying a better life in the United States, but the fact that he has had $100K worth of surgeries says nothing about how those surgeries were paid for or if he is using any sort of social assistance.

    I don't have anything to say about hospital dumping. It sounds like a tragic problem, and those who abuse their elders in that way should be caught and punished. I googled the phenomenon, and apparently, it's relatively common in Asian communities, where children who are legal residents bring their parents over on a tourist visa, and then end up dumping them in hospitals when their infirmities become too much to bear. Just tragic.

    Absolutely not. Why should the tax dollars of the poor and the middle class (or anyone, for that matter) go to provide tax credits to help rich people buy new BMWs? If you don't believe me, then check out the IRS info on tax credits for hybrids. You can get $1500 for your new BMW X6! Don't tell the illegal immigrants though, they might buy all of them first!

    That simply isn't true. What ICE said in a statement following the child's question was that ICE "“prioritizes criminal aliens who pose a threat to our communities.” (according to a statement by Matt Chandler, a spokesperson for DHS) In fact, more alien parents of US citizens were deported in the first year of the Obama administration than in the last year of the Bush administration. (Source: WSJ Interview with Deepak Bhargava, executive director of the Center for Community Change, an immigration advocacy group). Federal courts have also repeatedly upheld deportation proceedings against alien parents of citizen children, deferring to DHS/ICE to determine whether or not such deportations would meet the criteria of "extreme hardship". I say again, there is no such thing as an "anchor baby".
  6. b4cz28

    b4cz28 Active Member

    Let’s just stop right here. You will twist it your way no matter what anyone says. You are married to an immigrant. Most people who are opposed to immigration changes are immigrants, or are married to immigrants. Just look at the other immigrant thread we had on here, in the end half the people were or were married to immigrants.
    “I'm in North Carolina. We have our fair share of immigrants here, too, both legal and illegal. In fact, I'm married to someone who immigrated here legally and became a US citizen as a child. But it's disingenuous to say that "things are different", anyway, because questions of citizenship and immigration are federal matters, with national relevance, not local issues.”
    Oh I’m sorry I don’t mean to be “disingenuous” saying boarder states have it harder, with the huge influx we have. Your view points are distorted.

    (SIDE NOTE)Obama shot himself in the foot fighting Az. Over %65 of Americans supported it, those numbers crossed party lines. In the end AZ will win, it might go to the SC and they might lose, but they win if you get what I am saying. They made Obama look like a jackass. I still want to see Ron P as Prez, but getting someone in who wants to do something about our floods will make me happy. Obama is talking amnesty, which means we will add 30 million Americans to the roster.
  7. Fortunato

    Fortunato Member

    The fact that I am married to an immigrant is completely immaterial to this discussion. The OP asked whether or not others though we should modify birthright citizenship. I think I was clear enough when I said that we shouldn't, and my reasons why have nothing to do with my wife's citizenship/immigration status. But let's play your game for a second. Tell me, does my son deserve to be a US citizen?

    Any state with a sizable agriculture industry has been dealing with illegal immigration and migrant labor issues for years. I've picked tobacco alongside Mexicans, Haitians, Hondurans, etc. There is a "Tienda Hispana" on damn near every corner in Eastern NC. Regardless of this, I am no more or less entitled to my opinion on immigration issues than someone from Boseman, MT, and the same goes for you. Matters of immigration and citizenship are by their very nature national in scope.

    Ron Paul thinks letters of marque are a valid instrument of foreign policy in the 21st century. That should tell you all you need to know about how seriously one should take any of his views.

    Look, I believe that illegal immigration is wrong, that it unfairly depresses wages for lower class Americans, and that it ultimately hurts the countries the immigrants come from by making them dependent upon remittances and emptying these countries of their most productive workers. However, as long as you have the world's richest nation sharing a several thousand mile long border with a country that is slowly collapsing into a narco-state, then you are going to have those who want to escape and try to find a better life. No fence is going to deter them, no crackdown is going to stop them, because they don't have an alternative.

    And that's a far more complex problem than I have time to break down here. Suffice it to say that it involves US farm subsidies, the price of tortillas in Mexico, the valuation of the Chinese yuan, and probably a million other moving parts.
  8. raristud

    raristud Member

    I believe that many immigrants who are in the United States legally, paying their taxes and being productive citizens are actually against illegal immigration and this notion of giving citizenship to children of illegal immigrants. I am married to an immigrant who is in the process of applying for US Citizenship and she is very much against illegal immigration. We are one of the few countries that still adopt jus soli. Jus soli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I am in favor of weakening jus soli, eliminating birthright citizenship for children of ILLEGAL immigrants and possibly legal immigrants. The children would be granted visas ( If both parents are in the US legally with working visas ) and retain their parents citizenship. This is how it is in my wife's country.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 4, 2010
  9. mcjon77

    mcjon77 Member

    This is the scariest post I have ever read. It is scary because I think you got into my brain and stole my thoughts.:D EVERY SINGLE THING in this post is something I have proposed myself. Even your $50,000 per illegal alien is the EXACT NUMBER I came up with for those employing illegal workers.

  10. b4cz28

    b4cz28 Active Member

    You know what they say about great minds.
  11. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    I was the manager of a 15 person company twenty years ago and the INS would make periodic checks of all employees to make sure they were legally employed. We had to have two forms of ID including a SSN and at least one govt ID as I recall.

    This is the law:
    All U.S. employers must verify the employment eligibility and identity of all employees hired to work in the United States after November 6, 1986 by completing an Employment Eligibility Verification form (Forms I-9) for all employees, including U.S. citizens. Employers who hire or continue to employ individuals knowing that they are not authorized to be employed in the United States may face civil and criminal penalties.
  12. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    I’ll preface my post with my background so everyone here can understand where I’m coming from. My wife is ½ Hispanic on her father’s side and thus has always identified herself as Hispanic. This makes in her eyes, our daughter ½ Hispanic (though genetically speaking she is really only ¼). Suffice to say the culture of New Mexico, Mexico and the Southwest is prominent in my household.

    I am Irish by blood though my family has been in the United States for many generations, dating back to the American Civil War. Though I am Irish my grandparents and parents were missionaries to Brazil where I was born and visited in my formative years. I was naturalized through the Department of State because my parents were American citizens, making me an American citizen regardless of where I was born.

    When I applied for as a clearance after working as a law enforcement officer so that I may operate as an intelligence liaison my application was stalled because it came to their attention that the Immigration and Naturalization Services had no record of me making me in their eyes “illegal”. They sent me a nicely worded letter with a threat that either I prove my citizenship immediately or go to “X” office at “X” date to begin my deportation hearings. Now remember, at the time I was a FEDERAL law enforcement officer. So of course I sent them a photocopy of my passport and the nastiness went away.

    I then decided to apply for a concealed handgun license in the State of Texas while working as a law enforcement officer so that I could carry even when not working in an official capacity since there was some departmental policy mandating such for off duty carry. This required an extensive background check and again, I received a letter of “intent to deport” in the mail and again had to prove my citizenship to the same grab-assed morons who wanted to deport me the first time. Again, at the time I was a FEDERAL law enforcement officer (not state) and I was working in intelligence. So apparently they don’t consult other bureaus or agencies when doing a citizenship check.

    Now I say all that to say this. Our current system is broken, I mean completely, inexcusably broken. This is the very definition of systemic failure in that the “system” and the laws are both wrong.

    As it stands now, to become an American citizenship can cost up to $30,000 and take up to 10 years. I don’t know if that’s an average, a low or a high statistic or what but I know of one woman who spent $38,000 and 3 years of her life to become a citizen after marrying an American and another man who came here on his own and it took over a decade. I personally know of at least 1 African who is here illegally but he can’t afford the fees to gain citizenship, much less the flights back and forth to his country since we seem to love yo-yo-ing people around the globe during this process.

    When Ellis Island was in full swing people became American citizens in a matter of hours and days, they did not need an attorney, multiple plane tickets or tens of thousands of dollars. All they needed was good health and the desire to be an American.

    We need to speed up the process, make it cheap if not free and cut the lawyers out of the picture. We need to then and only then, begin strict enforcement of the law and enforce border control. As it stands now I resent illegals coming into the country, but I understand their frustration. We are asking them to voluntarily place themselves into the meat grinder that is our INS system and it’s not right.

    The “right” wants reform. Fine, leave the damn Constitution alone and reform the laws to where people today have the same opportunity as their ancestors did.

    The “left” wants to make this a political issue to win votes and treat it as a civil rights issue when it clearly is not. They need to instead work with the “right” and fix the system and then have the guts to enforce the law. No more machine politics, no more buying votes.

    We need to do the right and moral thing. We are a country of laws, we need to act like it. We are the land of opportunity, we need to act like it.

    Sorry, I’m passionate about this particular subject….I need a drink.
  13. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    Someone is getting ripped off. Today naturalization costs less than $700.

    I am a naturalized citizen, so is my wife, and so are several people I know. The speed of the process depends on whereabouts you apply. Los Angeles takes around a year but I've heard further North (Oregon & Washington) it is much quicker.

    I passed my test by buying a book from the US Printing Office and studying it. Plus a bit of research into who were elected officials.

    At one time I considered writing up my experience as a portfolio for credit.

    It is true that a lot of legal residents can't afford to get naturalized because of the $700 filing fee. But if someone is here illegally there is a near zero chance of them becoming naturalized unless there another amnesty program is implemented.
  14. NorCal

    NorCal Active Member

    This topic came up in my political science class, and I was curious to see what others here on this forum thing about the issue. Our class had a huge debate over these issues, as the instructed placed us into groups "for" and "against" no matter what our personal feelings on the issue were. It was interesting to hear the back and forth during class, because people examined points to the issue I would have never considered. It was eye opening to see what others had to say.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2010
  15. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Well, unless you argue that it means you're better informed from having had that additional experience with the issue.

    It's amazing how many people who otherwise go on and on about the Constitution choke on the fourteenth amendment.

  16. thomaskolter

    thomaskolter New Member

    Just undo that damned poorly written 14th amendment with a new one that overrides it, its so stupid. They should have worded it all negos born in the United States in the state of slavery is a citizen. DONE.

    The naturalization would have been better handled by laws passed by Congress that has the duty to do that.

    So simply repeal it and do a simple one if the child is born of one native born or naturalized citizen the child is consided a citizen. Easy Enough.
  17. zanger

    zanger member

    Here are some kids that were born in America that were denied citizenship.

    The courts already said that the US government can deny citizenship to children born here. Check out the article below about the children of European parents that were denied citizenship despite being born in America.
    These children were forced to leave the country.

    Don't believe it? US immigration service said it, look at the quote below. Interesting they deny citizenship to kids from Europe that grew up here then send then across the world to Russia, but they refuse to kick out a Mexican kid whose mother crossed the border by 10 feet to have a kid here to collect welfare.

    When they say the constitution absolutely says a kid that is born here is automatically a citizen they are lying.
  18. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    You omitted some key words here:
    "except in certain cases involving the children of diplomats or other foreign government workers."

    I understand diplomats and foreign government workers are exempt from almost all US laws. For example that is why diplomats run up millions of dollars in NY city parking fees with impunity.
  19. james_lankford

    james_lankford New Member

    I live in new york and the tv news often does stories where they'll sit in an unmarked van at a specific intersection where illegal aliens hanging out.
    Every so often pickup trucks pull up and pick up 3 or 4 of them and take them back to a construction site to do day labor.

    The news team follows them back and then the reporter and camera man will get out and go to the construction supervisor and start asking questions, "Are those workers legal ? Did you see their papers ?"

    Of course the construction guy tells the news team he doesn't know what they're talking about and tells them to leave.

    The news team goes back to the corner where more workers are waiting and asks them if they're illegal. Most are willing to talk and say they are illegal, but that they're willing to work, they have to take care of their family and that they're not stealing and they don't think they're doing anything wrong by taking these day jobs.
  20. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    The one that cost so much money was from the Philipines, I have no idea if that was a factor in the cost but she certainly had to travel back and forth a lot.

    Again, this is all 2nd and 3rd hand information I've gotten from my friends and not all of it reliable, though of the 2 I've known who have married women from the Philipines, both had to hire an attorney, both did a lot of travel and both took well over a year. This brings me to another problem with our current system, lawyers who prey upon immigrants who don't know any better, especially those who cannot read and write English. That being said I'm sure there are good ones, but to be sure there are some shysters as well.

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