An Exalted Nation

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by BLD, Nov 1, 2004.

  1. Even as a liberal, I'm not sure I totally disagree with the stance of the likes of Michael Savage.

    Time for all of us to face up to the fact that we are in a WAR TO THE DEATH with Islam, and there will be casualties. May God help us to ensure that the majority of those casualties are on the other side so that they will be convinced that fighting against us is useless, and peace can be soon restored.

    One thing that really frosts my cake is when conservatives automatically assume that no liberals support our military, or do not think like military minds when it comes to matters of war and peace. There are some of us who do, and who obsess about it and are disgusted with the lack of leadership and execution on the part of Bush's entourage. John Kerry, for example, is a liberal who knows all about war and policy, and would not be afraid to lead our country properly (with allies, and a strong base of support, including a draft if necessary) to defeat our mortal enemies in the world.

    Bush, on the other hand, seems to prefer conducting cartoon wars with police action mentality, and no plan for winning or ending anything. Look at what we've done over the past 10 years. We've not ended anything, but we stirred up a hornet's nest of hatred against us throughout the Muslim world. That would be quite different had we decisively defeated these enemies rather than poke at them, bomb them, starve their children, and then pull out to the next "police action" du jour.....
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2004
  2. grgrwll

    grgrwll New Member

    Re: Fake support for the troops..... ??

    Show us the poll. Point it out. Where is it?

    I think you are making this up.

    I would say the same thing about someone who denigrated the service record of any American soldier. And you do this every day. I think what you really mean is that you only care about the Republican soldiers. [/B][/QUOTE]
  3. gkillion

    gkillion New Member

    Make up your mind Carl. In one post you lament the death of foreign civilians during war. (Even though that has nothing to do with abortion, which is what you were responding to) Then in a subsequent post you say casualties are a part of war "to the death" and you hope they're on the other side.

    And then in typical arrogant liberal fashion, you demean the "brainwashed" men and women of the military. They apparently aren't smart enough to make up their own minds, and need to be "educated".
  4. Casey

    Casey New Member

    Lefties and baby murder....

    Death penalty fun facts:
    In the very BLUE state of Delaware, death by hanging officially remained on the books until late 2003. Hanging is still available in that liberal and tolerant BLUE state of Washington.

    Reality for Carl:
    The left supports partial birth abortion/murder. This is a violent act wherein living babies are pulled feet first from the wombs of their mothers and stabbed in the head. Their brains are drained, their skulls are crushed, and they are thrown out in biohazard bags like lumps of garbage. No funeral, no prayers, just a dumpster.

    This horrid procedure is usually pperformed on healthy women who are carrying healthy babies. Despite this, John Kerry voted against partial birth murder bans. (Catholic Standard and Times pg 42 10-21-04). You're right, Carl. John Kerry is in need of Jesus Christ, in a huge way.

    Lefty Elitist Liberals preach tolerance, diversity, equality, and acceptance YET oppose abortion bans. Aren't babies deserving of equal protection? You'd think libbies would be all over this. Oh, my bad, they're a bunch of hypocrites. They protest for trees, whales, and convicted killers facing death, but they sit by while babies are being slaughtered. Save tree, kill a baby! That's the lefty way. Disgusting!
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  5. I feel honored that I have managed somehow to piss off both the right and the left in two posts.....

    That's because we can't all be "pigeonholed" into right/left or liberal/conservative. It is because we think and consider and weigh options, and study history and science and religion.

    I include most, if not all, of you in this brushstroke.

    Anyway, keep it coming.

    No - I'm not for religious government
    Yes - I'm for destroying our enemies wherever they may be, and far more effectively than Bush
    Yes - I'm in favor of a woman's right to choose
    No - I'm not in favor of killing innocent lives, and partial birth abortions are abhorrent to me (as are the deaths that must result from war - different circumstances however)
    Yes - I'm in favor of conducting war to the maximum capabilities of our strength, so that we may WIN it
    Yes - I believe that our soldiers are not hearing the whole truth
    No - I do not think that our soldiers are "stupid" or in "need of remedial education" - they are, however, in need of the truth
  6. gkillion

    gkillion New Member

    Just as I would like someone to ask Kerry...Give me an example of your effectivness.

    They have access to same media everyone else does. You're right though, if they're reading the NYT or watching CBS they are not getting the truth.
  7. Casey

    Casey New Member

    Hey there, Killer! You think the soldiers, who are in the middle of it all, don't know the truth? I would submit to you, Carl, that if anyone has a grasp on the truth, our soldiers do. And they believe in the cause, and in the President.

    I can't find the the Pew poll cited on MSNBC. However, in an Annenberg Poll, Bush had the support of more than 2/3 of soldiers.

    The Delaware County Daily Times: RACE FOR THE WHITE HOUSE; Survey showed Bush with a 69 percent favorability rating among the military, compared to 29 percent for Kerry. ... brd=1675%26dept_id=226967 - 38k - Cached - More from this site
  8. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Re: Re: Fake support for the troops..... ??

    Here's a Washington Post report about a U. of Pennsylvania poll that shows strong Bush support among American soldiers:

    ...The poll, conducted by the University of Pennsylvania's Annenberg Public Policy Center, stopped short of asking respondents which presidential candidate they would vote for. Adam Clymer, the survey's political director, cited a 1948 law prohibiting polling of troops about their voting intentions...

    ...The survey found that 69 percent had a "favorable" view of Bush, while 29 percent professed a favorable view of Kerry...

    ...Further, more in the military group than in the general survey held Kerry's anti-Vietnam War activities against him, with half of the respondents who said they were familiar with Kerry's actions expressing strong disapproval.

    On Iraq, 64 percent of those surveyed in the military group said going to war there was worth it, although among those who had served in Iraq or Afghanistan, the figure dropped to 55 percent. An even closer split emerged on the question of whether the war had reduced or raised the risk of terrorist attacks on the United States, with 47 percent saying the risk was down and 42 percent saying it had gone up.

    Respondents also were narrowly divided on whether Bush has a clear solution for Iraq: 47 percent said he does; 48 percent said he lacks a plan...

    Bottom line: It sounds to me like the military rank-and-file have some skepticism about the larger strategy of the war in Iraq, but they have considerable misgivings about the idea of John Kerry as Commander in Chief.
  9. grgrwll

    grgrwll New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Fake support for the troops..... ??

    That's probably because it doesn't exist.

    By the way, a 69 percent favorability rating for one's commander-in-chief is not even close to an indication that 94 percent will vote and 80 percent of those will vote for Bush. Not even close.

    No kidding. I'm not doubting that. I'm simply saying that Bush04 is making up statistics to bolster his postion.

    But I guess that's fine, as long as he agrees with you.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2004
  10. Mr. Engineer

    Mr. Engineer member

    Good post Carl

    In that spirit:

    To all of those far right who think that if you don’t support Bush, you are automatically a commie, tree hugging liberal, you are wrong. Most people tend to lean towards the middle, and not towards the fringes – exactly the fringe that Bush leans. Bush claims that Kerry has voted out of the mainstream. Isn’t that hypocritical? Cheney and Bush are so far out of the midstream; they pale in comparison to Kerry.

    I am a registered Libertarian, and a Deist.

    What I believe in.

    1. Abortion
    I think abortion is wrong. Is it killing? At what point does human life start? I don’t know – and frankly neither do you. Get over yourself.

    I do believe government should to legislate whether or not it is legal or illegal. It should be available to those who need it. Alternatives should be presented, but it the ultimate decision should lie with the mother and her doctor.

    2. Death penalty.
    Lets look at the death penalty for exactly what it is – it is vengeance. It serves little justice, and hasn’t stopped crime. Most killings (other than those committed by paid assassins) are done in the heat of the crime, without the actual thought of killing someone. If execution is necessary, then go for it. But don’t try to justify it by using some silly biblical passage.

    3. School prayer, “In god we trust” on money, etc, flag burning amendments, etc
    Another reason for our legislators to divert attention from real issues. If you want to pray, pray. Just no intervention from the church and school personnel either way. No fixed periods during the day to pray – you do it on your own.

    If you want to be an asshole and burn the flag. Go for it. Of course, you might get your ass kicked, but that is a different issue.

    If you want to shroud your government buildings with slogans “In god we trust”, etc, then just don’t forget to allow the atheists, Jews, Muslims, and devil worshipers to do the same. They have rights as well. Don’t forget it either…

    4. Intervention
    I believe we should intervene only when something directly conflicts with our national security or interest. Bin Laden’s groupies brought down the twin towers, not Saddam. While Saddam is an “evil doer”, I can name at least 10 other world leaders that are equally as dangerous.

    Fighting for oil is not necessarily a bad thing. We need oil. Even the far left still drive their SUV’s to protests.

    5. President’s
    Clinton and Reagan are examples of good Presidents. Bush 41 & 43, and Carter are examples of poor Presidents. The poor President left the nation worse off then when they started.

    All Presidents’ have been guilty of something. Whether it is the Iran-Contra affair, to a civil perjury, to lying to justify a war, to Watergate, it carries the same amount of guilt.

    6. Religion
    Religion is a business. Tax it as such.

    7. Gay marriage
    States rights in this issue. On a personal level, all marriages (straight, gay, or combo) should strictly be civil unions in the mind of government. If you wish to get married in a church, go for it. If a church wishes not to accept gay marriage, that is there right as well.

    8. Affirmative action
    Affirmative action only to right the wrongs of the past. Once the social balance has been achieved, then stop it. Has it been accomplished? In some areas, yes, in others, no.

    9. Hate crime legislation
    Aren’t all crimes hate crimes?

    10. Morality in government
    You can’t legislate morality. What is immoral to one is OK for others. Most of the Arab world thinks we are immoral. Being a “good” Christian, Atheist, Deist, Muslim, Jew, etc, does not make you moral. Get over yourself.

    11. Bush and Kerry
    I voted for Kerry, not because I believe he will do a better job than Bush, but because Bush has proved himself to be unworthily of the Presidency., Fahrenheit 911, Celsius 4-11, Swift Boats for Bullshit, and that film on Kerry’s involvement in the anti-Vietnam effort didn’t sway me a bit. If you are intelligent, they shouldn’t sway you as well. They are all political shows with little value.

    12. Most of everything
    To say that most soldiers or most cops, or most of any group of people support one candidate or another is simply your opinion. You don’t know most of any one large group. Again, get over yourself.
  11. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    More amusing and lazy thinking... Note that correlation is not causation.

  12. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    Assisted suicide

    This is the opposite end of life from abortion. I do not recall it comming up during this election but it was discussed in the last election. As I get older (63) I am surprised how openly this topic is discussed between seniors, how they are preparing for this eventuallity, and how doctors in three countries participate in assisted suicide.
  13. Casey

    Casey New Member


    Listen Sport, I'm not making anything up. Believe what you want. But, just so you know, you easily could have verified the 94% number on your own. All you had to do, kiddo, was follow the very first link I provided.

    "After a Pentagon campaign to encourage voting in the Nov. 2 election, 94 percent of the sample in the military poll said they intended to cast ballots." (Houston Chronicle 10-15).
  14. Casey

    Casey New Member

    More stats

    Troops in survey back Bush 4-to-1 over Kerry
    By Dave Moniz, USA TODAY

    "An unscientific survey of U.S. military personnel shows they support President Bush for re-election by a 4-to-1 ratio [or 80%]. Two-thirds of those responding said John Kerry's anti-war activities after he returned from Vietnam make them less likely to vote for him......

    While there is a lot of information available on how military veterans have voted, data on the voting patterns of active-duty personnel are scarce. Feaver said experts believe military personnel favored Bush over Al Gore 2-1 in the 2000 presidential race."

    The bottom line: It doesn't matter what poll (scientific or not) that you look at. The military supports President Bush in a big way. I hope the people give our heroic soldiers what they deserve; 4 more years of President George W. Bush, and not an admitted war criminal, baby killer via conspiracy, and heathen.
  15. Mr. Engineer

    Mr. Engineer member

    When Bush loses the election this evening, are you going to change your screen name to LoserBush04?

    100,000 civilians have died in Iraq. I guess they don't count to Republicans.

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