Alternative/additional Forum

I think that would constitute evidence in favor of the idea that this isn't the board Peter is referring to; but I'll let him speak for himself.


Cheers,

 

I appreciate your confidence in me in that respect Tom.

I will state again that this is not my idea and will not be my forum. If Gus likes to think that I am a supporter of Dan Peters, I hope that he enjoys that thought - it does throw into relief other opinions that he has expressed in the past and reasons behind people requesting another forum.

All of the comments have been noted - many as expected and few surprises. It is now up to those who desire to address the problems/issues to take the next step.

The conclusion could be drawn that there will be little custom from most who have aired their opinions in this thread. I don't think that this would be a problem, as the idea is to provide an alternative meduim for discussion, that is moderated differently to this site. I would not expect it to be a heavy traffic site, bit it will be there, safely, for those who wish to use it.

 

Peter, I did not state that you were a supporter of Dan Peters and his ilk. Being that I am not a big believer of coincidences, when a new distance learning forum is alluded to by several individuals within days of each other, with similar reasons given for their creation, I simply questioned if they were one and the same.

Your reply, however, was characteristically cryptic and evasive, but it does not detract from the fact that you did not answer the question.

 

Gus - you are amusing, but predictably so. I don't accept your explanation as it doen't make sense ... I didn't come here for your permission, so you can think what you like.

Nor did i come here for your insults, which is exactly what the Dan Peters reference is, however you will have some answer to this too I suppose...

Tom answered your question.

I was taught to be cautious Gus, and that may not make sense to you.

 

By my reckoning, Peter wrote this message at 4:23 am! (No more daylight savings this week.)

 

and always well at work by now...more productive whilst it is dark! Now someone can make something out of that - Gus?

A habit developed between the ages of 16 & 26 when i did accounting and engineering by DE and night/weekend school whilst working ... and never broken.

Quite handy at the moment as I am running the finance modules in Business Management, writing Business Economics for DE [deadline next weekend] and then Year 11 Economics for DE High School students 100's of KM from the nearest town in outback Oz. Getting accreditation from the national corporate regulator for a training program for finance professionals which then has to be developed yesterday ... and also finding time for these messages, but they really do brighten my day - but seriously yours are appreciated.

It is now 6.15 am so off to the campus fro another 14 hours.

 

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AMEN to the new forum!!!!!!!!!!

I mean no offense to the members of this NG but alternative thinkers [most] are not. PLEASE don't misinterpret my opinion, as I DO NOT endorse degree mill activities, PERIOD!!!!!

But on-the-other-hand I am not an advocate for the RA's (inspite of having three RA degrees) either.

Most of the primary posters (to whom I have referred to as The Group) are extremists IMO and only validate RA institutions.

I for one think that America, or any other country for that matter, can't have enough educational institutions and within our system every school must start out without accreditation. "The Group" however, can't seem to move beyond the issue of accreditation long enough for any small unaccredited school to survive. Some small start-up schools might not be backed by millionaires.

Since joining this NG I have encountered a number of professionals with unaccredited degrees that have and continue to serve them well. The Nashville School of Law is not accredited but the State of Tennessee is full of graduates from this school, which BTW started out in the local YMCA. Many city police departments aren't accredited but still offer excellent protective services. God forbid though a college be unaccredited!!!!!

And yes, I believe that if a/any State goes to the extent that CA did with the Approval process I think this process should be granted the same respect as RA. Compare the traditional CA Approved doctorate degree which requires coursework plus a dissertation to that of most foreign GAAP doctorates that only require a thesis. I would venture to guess that the CA Approved degree holder is more prepared than the GAAP degree holder but hey, one is considered accredited and the other is not, BS!! Since when is writing a thesis (so what if it's 80 to 100 pages greater in length) more comprehensive than writing a dissertation plus at least six courses if not ten-plus worth more in terms of preparation? But hey if the school-of-thought doesn't change in the next 15 years (and I don't expect it to) I'll perform my writing/research assignment and get another doctorate degree to show for my efforts in addition to the CA Approved doctorate for my 16 courses.

I'd better stop and get off my stump as my feet or starting to hurt.

Peter, I don't care who moderates the new forum just get up and running ASAP!!!!!!

Regards, Wes

 

I am glad I amuse you; my only desire is to please. I apologize if I did not make sense to you; English is not my native tongue. In the future, I shall strive to elucidate my thoughts much more articulately and eloquently. And I shall be eternally in your debt for graciously and magnanimously allowing me the privilege of actually being in control of my own thought processes.

As I do not want to disappoint any more than I already have, Peter, I shall, of course, comment. I cannot, however, as you requested, answer, as you did not actually pose a question. As you undoubtedly know, Peter, in English (like in most other languages), that is exactly how it works; if a question is asked, in the interest of proper civilized discourse, rules of etiquette require an answer or, alternatively, a polite refusal to answer. Subterfuge and evasion are not only rude; they are the hallmark of a hidden agenda.

And as for being insulting, rest assured that my efforts would not be so subtle. Once again, I do not want to disappoint you, but in spite of your many shenanigans, you still do not meet the threshold of being worthy of my mounting a much more acerbic and vitriolic assault.

The bottom line is this, if the answer to my first question is decidedly negative, the second question is rendered moot, and no insult can be inferred or implied. If, however, the answer to the first question is in the affirmative, then I apologize if you are insulted, but the second question remains relevant.

No, Tom specifically deferred to your answer. An answer, incidentally, that has still not been forthcoming. If this new forum you are announcing to the world is not the same forum previously alluded to on AED by Dan Peters and others, why not simply say so? Don’t you think it is important for those interested in distance learning to know if there will be another forum in addition to the one you are announcing?

I understand caution, Peter; it is the meaning of your statement that has me a bit confused. Are you in possession of some kind of inside information of an ominous nature concerning this new forum that requires extreme caution on your part, or is this some kind of veiled threat?

 

Although my first impulse was to not take the bait, in light of my previous post concerning civil discourse, I shall now attempt to answer your question.

Yes I can.

See how simple it is, Peter? You ask a question, and you get a straightforward answer.

 

high educational level

Pete,

I want to say that while I disagree with some of what you have said, you must be given credit for eloquently pointing out your view. You have stated your views in a uniquely succinct way that is particular to you.

 

Once, when I was behind on a writing/research project, I caught up by working nonstop from about 10am to 8:30am the next morning. After having a cup of coffee and checking in with the rest of my family, I promptly went to bed.

My schedule these days varies, but folks who see the timestamps on my messages (and reckon it to CST/CDT) can tell that I tend to be something of a nightowl myself, even though I'm not on deadline at the moment. One of the advantages common to both DE and freelancing is that you get to make your own hours.



Cheers,

 

I don't know if I'm an "alternative thinker" or not. While many of my ideas bear little resemblance to conventional opinion, I try to make sure that my thinking is critical as well as unorthodox. There's a necessary balance between these virtues, either one of which, when carried to excess, becomes a vice.

I don't think that's true. We have DETC and TRACS students here. We have many students at schools outside the US.

I have personally made a number of posts praising certain CA-approved schools. Most recently just this morning (SF and Lincoln law schools).

I've even tried to push the envelope (wondering what the response would be) by praising places like Hsi Lai University. I went so far as to suggest that it might be a better choice (for certain students!!) than a "top tier" RA university. I said that I might enroll in such a school myself. I half expected the sky to fall on my head, but my comments were either treated with respect or ignored.

Certainly I wasn't burned at the stake for heresy, as some of the posts in this thread suggest is one's fate for disagreeing with this oppressive (albeit mythical) "Group".

The point is this Wes: If a person simply wants some education, he or she can deemphasize accreditation and emphasize different selection criteria. But if a student wants a *degree* that will be recognized by the wider professional and scholarly communities, then he or she needs to think about earning a degree that is accredited by those wider communities. Simple, no?

In most cases, both criteria are virtues in a candidate program. Stressing either one of these virtues to excess turns it into a vice. We want intellectual growth, but not without social recognition. And we don't just want a recognized piece of paper that teaches us nothing.

But "BA in 4-Weeks" type programs do provide certification for people who already have prior knowledge and who don't need to duplicate the education. And a program like Hsi Lai University can teach somebody about Buddhist philosophy and (particularly) practice in the largest Buddhist monastic complex in the world outside Asia, without their worrying overmuch about another degree that they don't really need.

What might be excessive for most students become valuable for a few special individuals. But it's dangerous to suggest these things are for everybody.

Just because you want CA-approved schools to be the equal of RA doesn't mean that they are. Just because you want them to be fully accepted doesn't mean that they are. But particular programs certainly may be the equal of some RA programs in some ways, for some purposes, for some people.

When I argue with you, it is your exaggeration that I am arguing with. I might agree with you if you restated your position in a more subtle and thoughtful manner.

 

Really, this is nearly impossible, unless Peter has gotten some bad wombat cheese. Peter is a crusader and even if he is wrong on some issue, he is trying to be right. He can't really decry outings on a moral basis and be associated with a board like that.

 

I second this; Peter has been on our side since day one as far as the spammers are concerned and is probably avoiding Gus's question under the heading of "I won't even dignify that with an answer." Besides, one of the first things Peter said about the forum was that, if it turned out to be what he imagined, it would be a place where people don't "have a go at each other"; this would certainly preclude the AED troublemakers.

I hope the project Peter's referring to really does turn out well, as I think Degreeinfo can only benefit from the availability of other decent forums. One of the things I learned when I took my first on-campus class was that competition gives you a gauge you can use to judge your progress; without competition, it's much harder to tell whether or not you're performing above par.


Cheers,

 

Just an opinion

I think that this forum is delightful because of the pleathora of personalities, opinions, etc. that are prevalent here. Sometimes I log on just to read the mass of noise that filters its way through this site! I love it. I have already found my path to my educational goals (thanks to this forum) but I still feel like I am a member of the community!

Also, the administrators are the best...where else can you find something professionally done, and provides a world of knowledge without costing anyone a penny! Appreciate this forum while we have it because remember...there are those that wish it wasn't here. I for one am at home!!

 

Actually, in the name of siding against the spammers, Peter has done quite a few things that I consider questionable, such as purposely misleading and baiting members of this forum. As to AED, and Peter can personally attest to this himself, no one is who he or she appears to be, and it is hard to tell the players without a scorecard.

And although I could understand it if Peter did not want to dignify my question with an answer, I cannot comprehend why he would want to dignify it instead with ignoble attacks (or to paraphrase Peter himself in describing what won’t be allowed on the new forum, “have a go at me”) solely because he disagreed with my opinions. Is this the kind of behavior that will take place on the new forum, or would it be that I would not have been allowed to even pose my questions?

I don’t think it takes a tremendous leap of logic to purport curiousity about a strange set of coincidences. Some individuals on AED have recently alluded to a new forum, although, like Peter, they did not claim ownership or responsibility. They simply knew it was being developed, knew it was to be as an alternative to DegreeInfo, and cited the exact same reasons and arguments as Peter for its creation. Was it really illogical or undignified to ask if both parties were referring to the same project?

 

I never said it was; my point was to explain where I think Peter's coming from.


Cheers,

 

And cheers to you also Tom, and also to those who show themselves as balanced and reasonable adults ... some not balanced or reasonable, and some a little childish maybe?

And thanks also to the moderators for letting this discourse proceed, and I was also going to also thank those who could be permitted to feel little aggrieved, but then i realised when i looked at the profile controls - they probably have me 'kill-filed' anyway.

Actually that thought is quite amusing

...and maybe I should do a poll like 'me to' and see how many wish that I would go away and not come back this time

As this topic goes in to shut down mode, I would like to share parts of a letter received from a member here and a previously very active member here and at a.e.d - a very balanced and non aggressive highly qualified academic ...

He says ...

" ... and I have always wanted to create an *area* for persons who have experience or degrees from schools out of the mainstream, [6 well known non RA schools listed]. The reason for this area, should simply be to give an open environment for the persons to discuss various issues, both positive and negative. And more importantly, not feel threatened by the *RA Nazi* party. I would like to see one for religious schools as well.

SHOULD IT BE DONE ? - I think so. I personally would love an
area to discuss various issues, schools, and other topics.

The real questions is..Is there a real need ? Let's face it,
if Degreeinfo.com opened up and allowed more flexible opinions
there would be no reason to start another forum.

I really wish for the good old days when people would view
alternative programs with an open mind and not this
RA or nothing mentality. Even DETC is not good enough for
these guys. That fact alone frustrates me no end. Years ago we used to have a big advocate of alternative schools, now he's their worst enemy.

Many were pointed towards [and again 6 colleges are named]
years ago., but people are now presecuted now for the advice they followed then....'

No Gus, I am not Dan Peters and he didn't write this, nor did i invent it, nor is the writer involved in the new/proposed group. You will have to go away and think up some other issue that you can write an amusing paragraph or 2 about.

So with that, goodnight to you and goodnight to me, and may your bladder allow you to sleep in peace.

 

Peter I strongly disagree. Degreeinfo allows just about ANY opinion. There are however people with other opinions who will respond if they read something clearly untrue or unbalanced. If what you mean is you want to post opinions that are questionable and not have others respond pointing out the errors in logic then that is different type of forum. Perhaps you are right. Maybe there is a need for a forum where those who believe unaccredited schools are superior to accredited one will not be bothered by logic or reason. In fact maybe Dan or Neil or someone similiar would be a great moderator. None of this noisy debate or discussion. Good luck in your endeavor.

 

Although attempting to decipher where Peter is coming from is a Brobdingnagian task, I do appreciate your efforts. I have been reading his posts for years, but they frequently leave me perplexed. On occasion (in the belief that my conundrum may be the result of a quaint colloquialism), I have even consulted my younger brother, who was a research scientist at the University of Melbourne for many years. But, alas, he too was at a loss to explain what he read. I do believe, however, that Peter is an extremely knowledgeable (if a bit eccentric) individual, and hence, the reason for my questions and requests for clarification of his statements.