ACICS vs DETC... a hypothetical (Seeking really good commentary and advice)

DETC & ACICS

Gregg,
I see what you are talking about. But right now DETC has discussed the refusal of RA schools to accept NA credits with Dept of Justice. And I think something may come of this within the next few months. Plus, under Policy 16 of their Pilot Program, they have spelled out a proposal to accept professional doctoral degrees. Also, if you are looking to get a religious school accredited, why start from scratch? I don't know if ACICS is as prepared as DETC. I 'm not trying to detract from them, but DETC has been involved quite a bit longer in DL.
Dr Bear, and his folks, are far more knowledgeable than I. My information has been gained personally, from the early 70's, with both. And I have followed them as a consumer, rather than scholar. I also believe time was a concern? My view, which is worth as much my posts, go DETC.
If you read your own posts you sound cranky as hell. You'll see that my stuff has been harmless. I hope you can take a vacation, away from everything, and waste some of those big $ you make.

 

Yes... good point. The ability of the student to get federal financial aid would be absolutely essential!

Yes... you're absolutely correct. However, this hypothetical little school, were it to come to fruition, would be not only "not-for-profit" as a matter of IRS classification, but decidedly not for profit in its unambiguous intent. Of course it would need to be able to pay its instructors and staff competitively; and to pay all of its bills on time, and cover other operational costs (which would include a bleeding-edge course delivery system and technology, which wouldn't be cheap -- although it would be a helluva' lot cheaper if I wrote it myself and either donated it or accepted a tiny residual over time as recompense... which I'm considering). But it really wouldn't be "in it for the money," if you know what I mean. This little school's charter would be training people to do some good in the world in ways -- both ways of training, and ways of doing good -- that aren't, in the opinion of these investors, currently being done as well as they could be. Still, your point is a good one, and no matter how much these guys might want to give it away for the greater good, they need to be practical and charge somewhat less than others, but still enough to keep the doors open and constantly improve programs.

Indeed. So far, ACICS has not answered the email that I sent them about this very issue -- or chimed-in on this thread, as I invited someone from that organization to do.

Similarly, DETC didn't respond to my email some time back regarding a problem with DETC's admission standards with respect to California D/L J.D. programs.

I've always heard that accreditors, generally, tend to think they're a bit above it all; and that replying to emails is not something they believe they should have to lower themselves to do...

...but neither my questions/comments to DETC about the D/L J.D. program admissions issue; or my inquiry to ACICS regarding this thread's issue, were frivolous or trivial; and both were tendered in utmost seriousness and with equal respect.

Still, from both of them, at this writing, silence.

[sigh]

 

DETC vs ACICS

The government has always found it easy to spend our money. ACICS schools sometimes cost more than RA schools. Govt. financing is another topic of discussion with DETC and the DOJ.
I think that you don't like the idea of a diploma stating that it has been DETC accredited rather than ACICS. On the DETC web site there are specific areas for assisting in the process.
If you want, I'll contact both and get back to you with any results. Policy 16 covers the DL law school question. You can download the DETC Accreditation Handbook and find answers to most of your questions. Or, for $30(?) they will send one. It appears they are getting all their ducks in a row, contrary to ACICS, and probably expect you to read the handbook before e-mailing you. Their policy may be more strict than your backers expected. You can be the judge of that, after you get some rest.

 

get some sleep Elms

Elems, you should follow Clays advice and get some sleep.

"Comments, questions, observations, suggestions, redicules......anyone" these are your words not mine. If you wanted a slanted one sided conversation "OBSERVATIONS" would have been enough.

Just say your fronting CPU and be done with it.

 

Are you a brain tumor patient or something? Have you actually bothered to read my posts in other threads here? I'm no more a "front" for CPU (or anyone else for that matter, than is your mother. Maybe you should bother to read a little around here, and figure out who's who and who believes in what before shooting your mouth off.

Fronting for CPU? That's outrageous! Where in godsname would you ever get such a ridiculous notion?

I think you need to take a giant step back and figure out who you're talking to, here. Dex.

Fronting for CPU. What a joke.



Thanks, Clay, and Myoptimism for the good info. I'm readin' ya' loud and clear.

 

I don't know about ACICS, but DETC has a very good reputation for returning e-mails. You probably don't want to base your opinion on one e-mail.



Tom Nixon

 

my Mother???????

Elms 'ol boy,

You need to chill out a little bit, didn't realize I was "shooting my mouth off" thought I was making a verbal observation, thank you for pointing that out. I've read a few of your posts or for better definition ranting. "Take a giant step back and figure out who you're talking to, here". I'm just a unejucated boy from the South please enlighten me, are you some kind of God, foreign royalty, great statesman, crooked politician or just a confused self centered know it all. You let me know and I'll give you all the respect you deserve.

One thing I have noticed in my " read around here" you seem to have an easy way of putting people down who don't necessarily follow in your word steps , but you have a difficult time coping with return criticism. I can see why you hide in a world of hypothetical, it's safe being in a place where your always right isn't it?

Bringing my Mother into your conversation is hitting a little low even by your standards. Unlike you I would never refer to any member of your family, they're probably very nice people and don't deserve any comments from me, I learned that from my Mother. You have to keep in mind I'm just simple people from the South who don't have near the lernin you appear to have and if being as smart as you means talkin bout my Mother is what smart people do then you go right ahead and talk bout any of my folks you choose, we can take it.

If your not fronting for CPU why did you use their program in your hypothetical?

Dex

"If you come in the house and a smell follows
you in, you probably stepped in it."
farmer down the road


"chickens can't fly"
1st grade teacher

 

Re: my Mother???????

No doubt. Thanks for helping us out with that. This, of course, prompts an obvious question about what kind of relationship you have with your sister, but you already blew a gasket when I so much as mentioned your mother in harmless simile, so I'll refrain... for your gasket's sake, if nothing else.

You obviously haven't read enough, or carefully enough. There are histories here; people known to me and I to them and so some of my replies presume knowledge of their previous words of which a newbie here, such as yourself, might not be aware. Sadly, we, here, can't begin at the beginning in every thread or we'd never get anywhere, would we? If some of my retorts seem harsh, perhaps you should make sure you understand all the players and all the histories before you criticize...

...speaking of which, I take criticism -- even from the likes of you -- just fine, as sufficient research here, on your part, would have revealed; and also when such criticism actually has a point. Criticism, only for its sake, such as that which you appear to have signed-up here for the express purpose of leveling at me in this thread, gets back from me all the derision and ridicule it deserves.

You mislead the reader when make it sound -- and clearly intentionally -- as though this sort of thread that I've started here is a common thing, or a "pattern," for me. On the contrary, I've never asked a question like this here -- or anywhere else, for that matter -- before in my life. In fact, a search reveals that there are only nine threads (at this writing) in the history of these forums which contain the word "hypothetical" and in which I've also made a posting; and to the best of my recollection, except for this thread, my postings in all eight of the others were regarding someone else's hypothetical. So... so much for patterns.

I have some experience in this life with thugs and gangsters... not being one, of course, but I'm sure my having mentioned it will provoke your assailing that possibility with the same irrational fervor as you've exhibited here already. At any rate, in my experience, such thug and gangster types tend not to be terribly well-educated and, typically, tend to hear one word in a sentence about which they either have or believe they should have high chivalric sensitivity and then they focus on that with no regard whatsoever for the rest of said sentence's obviously intended meaning... much as you've done here. With people like that, such exchanges usually go something like this:

• Ordinary guy to sitting thug: "Hey, Vinny... saw your mom at the bodega this morning. She..."
  
  Thug, interrupting and standing, angrily: "My mom? What about my mom? Are you sayin' somethin' about my mom, punk? Well, are you?"

I stated that I was as likely to be fronting for CPU as would your mother -- whom I picked for that simile not as an insult to either of you but, rather, simply because I was fairly certain that she was not fronting for CPU and I needed the comparison to be ridiculous to bolster its point. That you've decided to take offense where any reasonable person could clearly see that none was intended, nor would said reasonable person have assumed so in any case, speaks volumes about you and says nothing whatsoever about me... other than that I'm being attacked by somone intent on discrediting me, for its own sake, no matter how ridiculous the reach.

Like most of your apparent ilk, you seem unable to distinguish between a simple use of your mother as reference in harmless simile to make a point wherein neither it nor the reference were insulting to anyone; and a real mother-related insult. For example, if I had pointed out that, all of the above notwithstanding, it was, nevertheless, your mother who raised a dolt like you... well, then... that would have been an intentional insult. But I didn't say that... did I?

Okay, let's get this straight right now: I am in no way connected with CPU. I know almost nothing, beyond what I've read on its web site, or here in these forums, and/or in places like John Bear's guides, etc., about CPU. Before this moment, I have never written a comment or uttered an opinion, one way or another, here or anywhere, about CPU. And that's the last time that I'll waste my time saying it.

This brings me back to why I asked, earlier, if you were suffering from a brain tumor or something... because I don't see a single similarity -- not one -- between what CPU offers and what I've proffered as hypothetical in my thread-starting or subsequent posts here. The word "religious" is nowhere to be found on CPU's site; and there is not one of its (secular) programs that is even remotely like what the little school in my hypothetical would offer. How curious it is that you see some kind of similarity. Is it a vision problem? A cognitive one? What?

Further, your "fronting for CPU" accusation, as you've worded it and within that context; and with all its clearly intentional negative connotation, would seem to suggest that you believe CPU to be an inherently sub-standard school of which I should be ashamed if you were correct in your assessment that I'm a mere "front" therefore. While I'm no fan of CPU, and while I much prefer and feel safer saying good things about schools that are accredited by a USDE/CHEA-approved agency, CPU would at least appear to be credible in its own right and, therefore, nothing of which I should be particularly ashamed if I were fronting for it. In a post from last fall, John Bear, whom I respect and admire very much, wrote about CPU:

• "CPU has been a decent, responsible California-approved school, never sued by anyone (I believe), and rarely, if ever, called a diploma mill -- although the degrees remain illegal in Oregon and 4 or 5 other states. (Wonder why they don't go through the Oregon approval process; it is inexpensive and fast.)"

And there are many others here to consider CPU to be one of the better BPPVE-approved, but unaccredited, California schools... it's other weaknesses, whatever they may be, notwithstanding.

So as to your "fronting for CPU" accusation, aside from it being false in the first place, I respond, with as much sarcasm as I can muster, "Oooh. Ouch."



Dex, it's fairly clear -- and by that I mean that it would be painfully clear to virtually any reader here who truly understood anything about the landscape of forums which have higher education, generally; and distance education, specifically, as their subject -- that you are attacking for the sake of attack, and not because you really have anything meaningful and on-topic to say here; that you're irritated by my intolerance of people like crazie8chck (or whatever he handle is) in other threads; or that you're irritated by my intolerance of russ and others who shill and "front" for unaccredited, worthless diploma mills (or near diploma mills like Kennedy-Western, just to name one); and that it's more likely than not that you're either russ in Dex clothing, or a friend of his, or one of my many pro-Kennedy-Western/anti-Alan Contreras enemies, who decided to come here into my thread and be a sh_t-disturber for its own sake. Even readers who don't know the aforementioned landscape can intuit as much with little effort.

If you really had something to say -- something meaningful, valuable as a contribution, and on-topic -- you'd answer my earlier questions:

1. So you're saying "RA or no way," then, is that about it?
   
2. DETC and ACICS are "questionable?" Is that pretty much your boiled-down thesis?[/list=1]Why don't you trying responding to those questions instead of wasting the reader's time by trying to discredit me with accusations that are, in addition to not being true in the first place, are nothing of which I should be particularly ashamed if they were, in the second place? You haven't a prayer of accomplishing what you're clearly trying to accomplish. So why don't you stick with the salient points so that something may actually be learned here...
   
   ...I mean, other than that you're just a schoolyard bully who hides and lashes-out with wanton cowardice from, behind a username rather than using his godgiven name so that everyone -- including his mother and his sister -- could see how mean-spirited he's being here... for mean-spiritedness's sake.

 

That's fair... and you're almost certainly right. I apologize for casting an aspersion on DETC that it may not deserve. That said, I sent my October 29th, 2004 email directly to Michael P. Lambert, DETC's Executive Director; with a copy (cc to Sally R. Welch, DETC's Assistant Director. You'd have thought that at least one of them could have replied, "Got your message. Thanks. We'll make sure it gets discussed around here and someone will get back to you" or something along those lines. Just my opinion, mind you.

 

chill out

Elms 'ol boy,
I can't tell you how thankful I am for pointed out all of my apparent weaknesses. My Mother and Sister are really honored that a self imposed distinguished scholar such as yourself would continue to make reference to them, on their behalf thank you.

It's apparent to this reader that you have a very low self esteem and think the world and everyone in it are against the great Des Elms. Chill out, as you've so eloquently pointed out I'm just a non educated trouble maker with no meaningful opinion worthy of your time or attention. I know several good counselors would be happy to refer you.

Vinny is a friend of mine, let him read your comments, said if you made remarks about his Mother he'd break both your knees the first time, but as you know, that's Vinny. By the way Vinny and his friends don't like the word "thugs" hasn't been used in quite sometime, with your "experience" you should know that.

I didn't come in here to pick on Elms, don't flatter yourself, school yard bully, bogus user name, mean spirited, where do you get personal information about people who participate on this site?

Refering to CPU, for something you know little about, you gave this reader a lot of information why do suppose that is? You don't have something going with Carr and Kavanaugh do you?

Elms, as someone "unejucated" and far below your level of intellect, why is it so easy to PULL YOUR CHAIN? I simply asked if you front for CPU a simple yes or no would have answered the simple query, at least it would have for this simple minded southern boy.

Dex


"if worms wore guns, birds wouldn't eat them"
bubba

"you won't get sun tan under a tree"
old lady on a porch

 

Alot of information where, and about what? In my thread starting post; or when I provided, in my previous post, pretty much all I know about CPU? Just tryin' to get it straight before I reply... since, unlike you, apparently, accuracy (or at least an attempt thereat) actually means something to me... common, hurriedly-caused, overlookable-by-most-people spelling mistakes and/or other innocent typos notwithstanding.

No.

No.

There. Sorry if I was going too fast for you earlier. Thanks for reminding me for which audience I need to slow down. Were those simple, monosyllabic responses adequate for you, there, Bubba? Would they have been easier to grasp if Travis Tritt, Faith Hill or The Red Ryder Band had sung them for you... with a twang?

Look, Dex... this really is getting ridiculous. We could go on like this forever. This thing to which you've now digressed is the written equivalent of piling in the old Ford pickup --- the one with the rebel flag decal on its rear window, mind you -- with a couple of your good ol' boy buddies, grabbing the squirrel rifle down from the gun rack, and taking pot shots at road signs out on some old back-country byway somewhere. People who understand their obligations and responsibilities under the implied social contract -- people who actually get it in life -- neither do that, nor this. The "unejucated" good ol' boy characterization didn't originally come from nowhere... and you're propagating it quite nicely here, I've noticed.

I'll repeat: If you really had something to say -- something meaningful, valuable as a contribution, and on-topic -- you'd answer my earlier questions, to wit:

1. So you're saying "RA or no way," then, is that about it?
   
2. DETC and ACICS are "questionable?" Is that pretty much your boiled-down thesis?[/list=1]Could we at least try to stay more or less on-topic? Please? Why won't you answer those questions (and only those questions), once and for all, and return this thread to its topic instead of attacking me because you don't like my style, generally, and/or things I've written in other threads? You're comin' across as the spoiler and attacker, here... and, worse, for it's own sake. You get that, right?

 

what am I to do?

Elms 'ol boy what am I to do?

Why is it necessary for you to put people down because of who they are and where they come from? You've put down people from the South, the Italians, people with limited educations, teenagers, my Mother and Sister and me. You should look into some sensitivity training before someone takes you serious.

The question of RA are your words not mine, something your very good at doing. If your starting a career and paper from an institution with RA is required then by all means go. Is RA as important as it once was, maybe not, there a lot of senior adults with real world experiences who don't want or need an education from the world of RA and are opting for a less expensive faster meaningful full contact kind of educational experience, not one from a blow hard part time professor who forgot how to teach when they became tenured. Maybe that would explain why there's such a demand and use of non-traditional education? Or according to your analysis of most people there aren't enough folks with enough eteligence to fill all of them thar RA schools.

DETC and ACICS are questionable, based on all of the conversation about them on this site I'd say there was room for question you've certainly had a lot to say about them but you have a LOT to say about everything.

I stopped trying to impress people with big words most people don't understand when I realized I put my pants on the same way intellectual blow hards such as yourself do.

If we was down home we'd sit back and watch the hogs dig up the ground but that would mean you'd have to get down with us poor folks and that would be beneath such a man of your self imposed stature wouldn't it, to bad I think the hogs would take a shine to you.

Dex


"a bird in the hand is a dead duck"
bubbas brother

"don't spit into the wind"
grandma

 

Re: what am I to do?

Oh... I dunno... get back on topic, maybe? What... too novel of a concept for you?

ly.

[Ohmygod... be still my heart. Is he actually going to address the topic now? Thankyoujesus. Thank you.]

[Ohgod... ohgod... he's actually doing it. I can't believe it. Ohgod... now can he just keep it up? Here we go... keep reading...]

[Oh! No! Just couldn't keep it going without the personal attack. Damn! Just when I thought... {sigh}... {shakes head}... oh, well... too bad. It was a good try though... gotta' admit.]

[Uh, oh. Is this another stab at it? C'mon, Dex... you can do it. Will he? Can he? C'mon country boy... give it the old college...]

[Oh! Damn! Once again... close, but no cigar. Oh, gosh... that's just... oh boy... too bad. So close. So very, very close. Ya' gotta' like the kid, though. He's tryin'. He's gettin' in there are really trying to give the actual topic a try. I'm startin' to really like this kid. More power to him, I say!

So, instead, you think weapons-grade self-deprecation and characterizing yourself -- clearly incorrectly, I might add -- as an "unejucated" Southern hick will somehow work better? (It's a rhetorical question... but I know you'll answer it anyway.)

May I call to your attention the fact that you came here and lashed-out at me first, Mr. But-Who-Cares? If you're upset with me for what I post elsewhere, do you think your Southern sense of honor and fair play [yes... I know it's an oxymoron] could cause you to rein-in your marginal propensity for self-indulgence and keep your thoughts about those comments there; and yours about those I've made here, here? Let everything, in every thread, stand on its merits, or not, in whatever thread in which it was written. Doing what you're doing here an in other threads is a form of cross-posting... which has been universally viewed as a newsgroup and/or BBS and/or forum "no, no" since time immemorial. Please.

If you only knew how wrong you were... and why.

Ooooh. Ouch. Just had to get in that one, last swipe, didn'tcha?

Okay... so... like... um... [sigh]... as I asked in the other thread: Are you 'bout done, now? Finally? I mean... can we now get on to more meaningful and interesting stuff? Please?

 

be civilized

Elms 'ol boy,

Thought I finally had you down to civilized one liners then you dazzle and cornfuse me with a language from a different world. You mentioned in another post about your being a devout practicing religious person, are you using words from scripture to make your point or just being foul mouthed, tic, tic. You appear to be losing control 'ol boy, if you'll just engage that magnificent brain of yours before engaging your big mouth you might get it back.

Why can't you discuss an issue without having to be the only authority with the only answer. Thank your God Elms opinion isn't always the correct opinion, if you want to be a dictator your in the wrong country. You ask for input then chastise all who don't agree with or say what Elms wants to hear.

I haven't been a kid for a long time, but keep saying it cause it makes me feel young and vurllllll like the rabbits. Before you correct anyone's spelling/English, to[o], you really should pay closer attention to your volumes of garbage. Filipina[o].

Cross posting, time immortal, I'm not that old, you that old? Where do you come up with these revelations of fact, do you have a book of Elms theories and laws?

Give it a rest 'ol boy, ask the question, accept or reject the reply but do it with dignity and not contempt. Your probably a very likeable person...........NOT

Dex

"if the moons out it's nite time"
bubba

"if the suns out the moons comin"
bubbas sister

 

Mommie, are we there yet?

Okay... so, now are you done?

 

yes dear

Thank you ... sir.

 

Ummm....

From what I've gathered from this site ACICS and DETC degrees are not questionable, but do lack the utility of an RA degree (especially in academia).

I post this in response to Dex, who apparently feels that NA degrees are suspect.

Now, I'm from New England, so if you've got any jokes or stereotypes about my little corner of the country feel free to let fly.

 

Detc & ACICS

RobbCD,
I don't think they are suspect, I think he just used the wrong term when discussing another topic. I went to the site, on the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Education and the Workforce, and found that the general consensus was that RA and NA are going to have to find a general meeting ground, for acceptance of credits, and degree utility. It's going to happen. When, is the question?
Taxpayers are not going to continue subsidizing the same courses because school A won't accept school B's credits, even though both are accredited. Unfortunately, education has become a business and a forum for professors to spout their own form of free speech. Whether it has anything to do with the topic or not.
Taxpayers (voters) will decide if the responsible agencies won't. So all the self-centered, egotistical, elite, frat-rats, will be SOL. And the rest of the unwashed, masses, will infiltrate the sacrosanct halls of vita luna.
I almost had an accident in New England. The stop light was out.

 

sword fight

RrobbCD,

For me everything in academics is suspect. I used the wrong wording, got caught up in the sword fight. I agree with yours and Clays analysis of the 2 agencies, and their rolls in the future of higher education in this country. RA will always have an important place in our society but as the population continues to age the demand for the elite degree will be off set by the years of hands on experience the senior citizen/student brings into the world of higher education, creating an important role for NA. A simple opinion from a simple person in his simple defense.

I LOVE clam chowder, any recommendations?


Dex

 

Dexter, why are you so abusive in your posts?