Accepted by Free State!

Re: Free State Doctorate via Distance

Hi Dave,

The best thing for you to do is go the their website and look for relevant information germane to your interests. Jack Tracey has a good bit of experience with the Free State and maybe he can answer any specific questions. I am too new to the school and may give you incorrect information.

 

Re: Re: Re: Accepted by Free State!

OK then, lapel pins . . . ummm . . . I guess it's good that you're not enrolling in the business program. (cough, cough)

Jack

 

Free State Info

Hi Dave - I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you but I do not think that UFS has a doctoral program in "disasterology."
If, despite this, you continue to be interested in the prospect of a UFS degree, I'd like to direct you to their web site:
http://www.uovs.ac.za
Most of your questions will find answers there.
Jack

Jack:

I did visit the website and it did not answer my questions hence I made a post to see if Jimmy Clifton would answer since it seems he has been accepted for a doctoral degree there. The PhD does not have to be in Disasterology. I have realized that little or no doctoral degrees are available in that area other than very high priced in residence degrees that mainly deal in environmental management at less than 5 schools.

I would settle for management, administration, organizational studies etc. wheras I could hopefully complete a thesis on something related to disasters.

 

Re: Free State Info

Hi Dave - While I'm willing to acknowledge that Jimmy is a true fount of knowledge, I would like to point out, at the risk of blowing my own horn, that I have been a PhD student at UFS for about a year now. It's not clear to me exactly what information you are seeking because if you go to the main page, click on "Prospective Students" and then click on "Fees" you will begin to get a sense (typically, a very clear sense) of the costs. Also, from the main page, if you click on "Programmes" and then click on "Philosophiae Doctor" you will get a list of academic areas in which the school offers PhD degrees. Beyond this, I can only point out that each department has its own set of web pages complete with contact information. I feel the need to point out that these are not Doctoral degrees in the Capella, Walden, Union tradition and that you should probably do some solid preliminary research in the area of "research doctoral programs" (you could do worse than starting this research at degreeinfo) before proceeding much further. Good luck.
Jack

 

Re: Re: Congratulations

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Jimmy

Ike began an aside and you responded to it in terms of insisting on the rigor and utility of the Bethany doc for you. But then, you further recommend Bethany for those satisfied with unaccredited docs in Bible/Theology. Just as you felt obliged to respond to Ike, so I feel the obligation , a duty, toward readers here to respond to you. I hope no feelings are hurt by this.

I know something about accredited grad work in Bib/Theol. While I have not taken a course at Bethany, I have looked at their site and can compare Bethany's grad programs to RA accredited ones. Having done this, I would *never* recommend Bethany's grad, perhaps undergrad, theol/Bible programs because:

1) Unlike several unaccredited seminaries I might recommend, the Bethany program does not appear to qualify one to do doctoral work in Bib/Theol [by 'theology' I mean systematic not practical] in US RA insitutions. Bethany's curricular requirements and/or expectations for their grad degrees in Bib/Theol differ in several ways from RA/ATS schools. These ways include language requisites and the amount of work required for some degrees in comparison to RA/ATS standards. If I am wrong, can you point me to a few instances where Bethany MDiv, ThM grads with no other masters entered and finished a PhD/ThD in an RA seminary?

2) Unlike several unaccredited seminaries I might recommend, the Bethany grad programs in Bib/Theol are not taught by professors with accredited docs in Bib/Theol. Some may think this inconsequential , but I assure any who does that it is significant in the eyes of theological academe. It should not normally be expected that a prof or supervisor with no accredited doc in that field could teach or supervise a doctoral level class or dissertation at an accredited level as that prof or supervisor has not likely experienced the rigor of such a program him/herself. If I am wrong, can you point me to some instances in RA theological schools where doctoral level classes or dissertations in Bible/Theol are taught by profs who lack accredited or GAAP docs in those areas? Even Walston, and CES, desire profs with accredited docs!

3) Unlike several unaccredited seminaries I might recommend, it does not appear, despite your allusions to utility, that a Bethany PhD/ThD in Bib/Theol is likely to land one in a position of teaching at a school accredited either regionally or nationally. In my issues of the Evangelical Theological Association Newsletter, in which docs or docs to be advertise themselves for positions, I see nary a Bethany graduate listed there. In my survey of the faculties of various institutions, I see no prof with a Bethany doc. It is illusionary to suppose the PhD/ThD from Bethany qualifies one to do much of anything an accredited doc in Bib/Theol allows one to do. If I am wrong on basing this conclusion on limited faculty inspections or on ETS newsletters, then point me to a few instances where the Bethany doc has enabled one to get a professorship in Bib/Theol at an RA school.


4) Of course the quality of the Bethany program might also be evinced by their grads producing research which is utilized in scholarly journals or or other modes. But I know of no regular participation by Bethany grads in , say, ETS journals or presenting papers in ETS meetings , or any other similar organization, nor do I see any Bethany grad being asked to contribute to scholarly exegetical works as multi volume lexicons or scholarly commentaries or systematic theologies which are recognized as standards by theological academe. That is, it does not appear to me that the theological scholarship of Bethany grads is recognized in any contexts outside of the confines of denominational or local church associations. If I am wrong, point me to examples of research by Bethany theo doc grads which is widely accepted as a standard by the theological academe.

This in no way addresses your doc work there as I know nothing about counseling ....never needing any myself

 

Congratulations, Jimmy!

Best wishes!

Roscoe

P.S. How about celebrating with some good catfish from the Mississippi Delta

 

Re: Re: Re: Congratulations

Hi, Bill,

There are no hard feelings. Why should there be? Bethany is not for everyone. It served me well in pastoral positions, counseling licensure and counseling positions. The M.Th. and the Ph.D. got me into the Free State. Even when I recommend Bethany I always, always make sure I instruct people to make sure it will be of utility to them and to check with potential employers, state licensing boards, national certification boards and schools they may wish to attend in the future before applying to Bethany. I am sure Bethany will continue to improve their programs. I agree with most of your points, especally the language requirement. Every seminary, accredited or not, should teach courses in the Biblical languages. Bethany has made many changes in the past for the better. Now that they are pursuing AABC accreditation, I am sure they will continue to improve.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Congratulations

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I am glad there are no hard feelings.

A school which is genuinely trying to improve should be commended to the extent it actually does improve and does make known its need for improvement to interested parties as prospective students.

I may have before said that such comments as I make above are not intended to be scornful of the personal and/or practical worth of the students or staff at Bethany. These are likely as a norm very probably better Christians in many ways than am I.

My only concern is to be watchful that when my own area of Biblical/Theological studies is done in the context of formal education that it is done well and that it is not represented as being "good" when it is not done well.

 

Well, this is now cleared up.

 

Re: Re: Congratulations

There is no need to defend the indefensible. Let's wait and see what will become of Bethany's AABC pursuit. To suggest that Bethany will secure or be denied AABC accreditation is akin to counting your chicks before they are hatched. In any case, I am glad that you have seen the light and are heading in the right direction. Take care and good luck with your studies at UFS.

Ike Okonkwo, Ph.D.