ACBSP Vs AACSB

Reply to Jim

Sorry Jim but you are incorrect here - I've taught for two ACBSP schools. Both require research for tenure. Further, if you look carefully at ACBSP's standards, they require all faculty to report on scholarship. In fact, at both schools I am (was) required to submit an annual report showing my scholarship activity.

Granted ACBSP has a broader looks at different kinds of scholarship than AACSB might have. They've identified:

(1) the scholarship of teaching - including publications on pedagogy, (2) the scholarship of discovery - basic research, (3) the scholarship of integration, and (4) the scholarship of application.

We've been warned that as a school we must demonstrate work in all four areas or risk the loss of accrediation.

One other point - my belief that effective teaching needs to include scholarship isn't mine alone. Both AACSB and ACBSP affirm this through their standards for accreditation.

Regards - Andy

 

Re: Reply to Jim

Here is one paragraph that is a bot interesting. I've not had time recently to do much, so this will have to suffice asd temporary support for my position that is is research that in the delineating factor between these accreditation groups:

History of ACBSP
According to the promotional literature of ACBSP (ACBSP History, 1995), two organizations in the United States accredit business schools and programs in colleges and universities. One, the American Assembly of Collegiate Schools of Business (AACSB), was formed in 1919. AACSB is an accrediting agency for bachelor's, master's and doctoral degree programs in business administration and accounting. The mission of AACSB is the promotion of excellence in management education in colleges and universities. The second organization is the Association of Collegiate Business Schools and Programs (ACBSP), founded in 1988 as an alternative accrediting agency for business programs that do not have research as a primary emphasis.

http://www.saintmarys.edu/~psmith/kand97.html

Jerry Kandies
Assistant Professor of Computer Information Systems
Delta State University
Cleveland, MS 38733
phone: (601) 846-4426
fax: (601) 846-4429
[email protected]



When I have time, I'll also check to see if dual accreditation is possible.


jim

 

More authorities agreeing with me

I was editing the previous post and lost it because I went overtime, so pardon the addenda being here. I've repeated the cite above.


Okay, Andy, I have been pretty busy with trips into Mexico and in doing some of my own research dealing with SWOT anaylsis and a paper I am writing on that tool. So, I dug into the net and in 15 min found this material to support my contention that research is the major difference between AACSB and ACBSP:

From this website:
http://www.studyoverseas.com/america/usaed/bus4.htm


One basic consideration in choosing a business school should be based on whether or not the school is fully accredited. Although this may at first sound like an obvious requirement for a B school, think again. There are two major accreditation groups in the United States: the Association of College Business Schools and Programs (ACBSP), and the American Association of Collegiate Schools of Business (AACSB). Both organizations base their accreditation of schools on a number of factors including curriculum, outcomes assessments, doctorally-prepared faculty and scholarly production. AACSB has higher expectations of faculty research, while ACBSP has a stronger emphasis on outcomes assessment. Only around 25% of the business schools in the US have achieved accreditation.

Kasandra Dalton McNeil
Director of Strategic Communication
Aurora University


From this website:
http://accounting.rutgers.edu/raw/aaa/TYC/2-98comm/inside2.htm


HISTORY OF THE ACBSP
In 1988, representatives from 150 business schools and programs met to discuss alternatives to external accreditation. Their efforts culminated in 1989 in the formation of the ACBSP located in Overland Park, Kansas. These representatives expressed dissatisfaction with the accreditation philosophy, requirements and procedures of the only existing accreditation organization at that time, the American Assembly of Collegiate Schools of Business (AACSB). Prior to the ACBSP’s founding, many institutions felt that their needs were not being met by the AACSB. Their concerns focused on AACSB’s standards which emphasized research. However, these institutions had as their primary objective, excellence in teaching. Furthermore, a whole constituency of institutions were totally left out of the accreditation loop, the two-year institutions.

Accreditation: An Opportunity For Recognition
By John Ribezzo
Department of Business Administration
Community College of Rhode Island


Here is another site saying much the same thing:

http://www.saintmarys.edu/~psmith/kand97.html

History of ACBSP
According to the promotional literature of ACBSP (ACBSP History, 1995), two organizations in the United States accredit business schools and programs in colleges and universities. One, the American Assembly of Collegiate Schools of Business (AACSB), was formed in 1919. AACSB is an accrediting agency for bachelor's, master's and doctoral degree programs in business administration and accounting. The mission of AACSB is the promotion of excellence in management education in colleges and universities. The second organization is the Association of Collegiate Business Schools and Programs (ACBSP), founded in 1988 as an alternative accrediting agency for business programs that do not have research as a primary emphasis.

An Administrative Model for Virtual Website Hosting
Jerry Kandies
Assistant Professor of Computer Information Systems
Delta State University
Cleveland, MS 38733
phone: (601) 846-4426
fax: (601) 846-4429
[email protected]



I found the article at this site:
http://www.sbaer.uca.edu/Research/1999/WDSI/99wds785.htm

very interesting because it calls into question the pay-off for AACSB accreditation, or the lack thereof.



This website:
http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:ZZZyfs6KUYoC:business.db.erau.edu/Strategicplan2002-3.doc+AACSB+AND+ACBSP&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

will take you to an article that has the extra research effort required for junior and tenure-trach faculty under AACSB listed as a weakness in a SWOT anaylsis:

6. Teaching loads and service responsibilities continue to be heavy for most faculty. This becomes a special problem for junior, tenure-track faculty who are expected to engage in academic and applied research as well as industry consulting and internships.

Strategic Plan for 2002 –2003
Business Administration Department
Daytona Beach



Anyway, Andy, before you take off and go digging through a bunch of websites, the point I have made here is that there are several authorities that support my position that the clear delineating difference between the two accrediting groups is research. Now, please take it easy on your grad assistants, secretaries and wife and do not send them out to do too much digging, because you will need to find authorities that state clearly the “research is not the primary factor.”

BTW, I’ll be happy to send a bottle of Maalox your way to soothe the ulcer I have been giving you.

Have a restful day.


jim

 

Whoops, left this out

If you want to continue taking up your position, I suggest you contact the various authorities I have cited. You can argue with them until you are blue in the face for all I care. I have made my point.


jim

 

Like their UK counter parts-generally a waste of time!

The US business school accrediting agencies, like their UK counterparts, are are complete watse of time! They support out-dated programmes and ways of running them and syllabuses that shoudl have been jetisoned years ago! Much iof what appears in the majority of MBA degree syllabuses on both sides of the Atlantic should go under the title 'The History of Management Theory and Pratcice'! Most, if not all, never has worked and never will! There is little,m if any, empirical evidence to support the view that MBAs actually make a differenc ein organizations. Of course, in reality they surely must (or should do so) but we've little evidence to prove it! The business school accrediting agencies are a joke in my view. They are made up of the 'good and the great' from the so-perceived/called business schools who simplly go around patting each other on the back - like most professional groups in most walks of life!

There are more US business school courses not accredited by the two major agencies than are! We should ask ourselves why! You either do it the Harvard way (give or take here and there) or not at all! We're as bad in the UK.

Before anyone 'groans', I am involved in a top ranking UK business school in a top ranking (top 5) university!

'telfax'

 

A side note from the crowd (watching but haven't posted on this one).

The California state and UC schools require an AACSB accredited school for their full time faculty, they do not recognize the other.

Secondly, AACSB is not very helpful in itself in helping research schools. If everyone remembers, I posted last month trying to find out about school residency requirements, since AACSB schools have about 100 schools accredited for graduate level programs. The rep at AACSB said that they don't keep that kind of information, and could only issue me a list of schools, no other information.

Additionally, AACSB does not accredit Doctorate programs, only undergradute and gradute (MBA) levels, and if that school is approved, the Doctorate level takes the accreditation status. I can't say I understand this, but that was how AACSB reps explained it.

I think it is a huge "good old boys club".

I do think it is a good idea to have accreditation agencies, so it is easier to find the "degree mills" from the quality programs, but I think AACSB has the hold in the industry and is lacking in their support to their customers (THE STUDENTS!)

 

Kristie - A couple of thoughts:

1. What some folks do is ask "Do you hold a doctorate from an AACSB accredited school". AACSB doesn't accredit doctoral programs - but the inference is that a doctorate from a school that has BBA and MBA levels accredited is stronger than a doctorate from a school that doesn't.

2. As for the good old boy club - this may be true to an extent, but I do believe the things AACSB requires benefit students. Well educated faculty that are active in research, are critical to graduate education. As for students being customers - this is a lively point we should discuss. I believe that students are customers in the same sense that patients are customers of doctors. Yes, students make choices about what education they receive. However, students go to school to learn things they don't know. Hence, they have to accept the guidance of faculty, even to the point of taking courses and doing tasks that they don't want to do. Do second graders get a choice on whether they learn math facts or spelling? Of course not. Should students who desire to learn management be given the option of whether they take management accounting or statistics?

3. Does AACSB have hold of the industry? Or is AACSB a light in the wilderness for an industry bent on delivering weak academic programs?

Regards - Andy

 

Andy, I agree with your first point, but to the customer point, I explain it like this.

To Teach here in CA, you must choose a school that is AACSB accredited for Universities. To find out which schools are accredited, you must go to "Jonnie's Distance Home Page" or similar, which is wondeful for these people to make their efforts. Since the schools pay for the AACSB accreditation, shouldn't AACSB be responsible to at least give a list of members.

In that same regard, I would not mind paying a fee for the service, but they don't even seem to know. This scares me, why don't they know about the programs that they are accrediting??

It seems that AACSB has the hold on Business school, so since they do not have competition, they are lacking in service. I do not know how the schools are treated, but I assume the same (maybe not a good assumption).

I guess I am just frustrated in having to surf to each site, and try to find information, when it would be a very easy database for AACSB officials - they seem to be well compensated, so not sure what the issue is????

 

Sorry, I missed your point 3. I agree it is a great thing that there are standards, but they seem to be getting to big for their britches!!

 

Re: More authorities agreeing with me

No ulcer Jim - I'll accept the idea that AACSB is more research focused than ACBSP. I've never doubted that. My only point was (and still is) that AACSB, although more research focused, doesn't ignore teaching. Further, ACBSP, although more teaching focused, doesn't ignore scholarly activities.

Will you accept the notion that ACBSP does expect faculty to participate in scholary activities? Will you correct your earlier statement, which is false:

"ACBSP faculty are welcome to do research. The difference -- it is from the heart or for intellectual gymnastics or whatever and not from a mandate for accreditation and tenure. "

There are ACBSP schools that do require faculty to do research to obtain tenure. ACBSP does require it members to demonstrate that faculty are active in scholarly pursuits. We have to report on scholarly activities and demonstrate continued faculty development.

Regards - Andy

 

Re: Re: More authorities agreeing with me

I suggest you try re-reading your posts, Andy. I don't think there is a single reader that did not pick up on the fact that you were arguring with my posiiton that if you wanted to summarize the difference between the two it could be that one focused more on teaching, the other on research.

Nice attempt to waffle out and to finally acknowledge my point.

Why is it always necessary to browbeat you? This last is a replay of the UOP thread which took you the better part of a year to finally admit that your information was old and dated.


jim

 

Second try to get a straight answer out of Jim

Jim - Nice try at avoiding my question. Can you please respond to this - without wandering off to a different topic:

"Will you accept the notion that ACBSP does expect faculty to participate in scholary activities? Will you correct your earlier statement, which is false:

"ACBSP faculty are welcome to do research. The difference -- it is from the heart or for intellectual gymnastics or whatever and not from a mandate for accreditation and tenure. "

There are ACBSP schools that do require faculty to do research to obtain tenure. ACBSP does require it members to demonstrate that faculty are active in scholarly pursuits. We have to report on scholarly activities and demonstrate continued faculty development. "

I never said that AACSB didn't have a research bias compared with ACBSP. In fact I did say, "But it isn't that simple. I'd say - AACSB is both research and teaching oriented. ACBSP is focused on teaching (with some requirement for on-going faculty development). "

Regards - Andy

 

Re: Second try to get a straight answer out of Jim

'Round and round, Andy, you go:

Do all AACSB schools require research for tenure?

_____ Y
_____ N



Can an ACBSP faculty member achieve tenure without conducting research?

_____ Y
_____ N


Fill in the blanks, Andy. Sure about that maalox?


jim

 

Re: Re: Second try to get a straight answer out of Jim

Jim - You continue to avoid answering my rather direct question.

I'll answer yours. Yes to the first question and No to the second. I cannot obtain tenure at my current school (ACBSP accredited) or the past school I taught at (also ACBSP) without conducting research. And the same is true at many other ACBSP schools. Every ACBSP school must submit periodically a reporting showing the scholarly activities of their faculty.

Now please answer my question - A "yes" or "no" on the first question would do well. The second question requires a simple "I retract" or "I don't retract".

"Will you accept the notion that ACBSP does expect faculty to participate in scholary activities? Will you correct your earlier statement, which is false:

"ACBSP faculty are welcome to do research. The difference -- it is from the heart or for intellectual gymnastics or whatever and not from a mandate for accreditation and tenure. "

There are ACBSP schools that do require faculty to do research to obtain tenure. ACBSP does require it members to demonstrate that faculty are active in scholarly pursuits. We have to report on scholarly activities and demonstrate continued faculty development. "

Thanks - Andy

 

Re: Re: Re: Second try to get a straight answer out of Jim

 

Slam dunk

Hmmm, Andy, here’s ACBSP itself. Pay close, very close, attention to what they say about research:

ACBSP is the leading specialized accreditation association for business education to support, celebrate, and reward teaching excellence. The association embraces the virtues of teaching excellence and emphasizes to students that it is essential to learn how to learn. In addition ACBSP acknowledges the importance of scholarly research and inquiry and believes that such activities facilitate improved teaching. Institutions are strongly encouraged to pursue a reasonable mutually beneficial balance between teaching and research. And further, ACBSP encourages faculty involvement within the contemporary business world to enhance the quality of classroom instruction and to contribute to student learning.

http://acbsp.org/about_pages/vision.html

I see “strongly encouraged,” but nowhere can I find the singular word, “required.” Hmmmm. Seems that it is largely up to the individual institution and not a clear MANDATE from ACBSP. And that, my fine feathered friend, supports my position, not yours.

Let’s look further, shall we?

While these objectives accord in large part with the traditional tasks of other accreditation agencies, ACBSP has as its primary emphasis the encouragement of excellent teaching within its member organizations and the continuous evaluation of teaching effectiveness. To such ends, professional and scholarly activities are of primary importance. At the same time, ACBSP recognizes the diversity of business schools and programs and insists that such diversity is necessary and acceptable. Thus, the particularized mission of the individual business program is acknowledged in the evaluation procedure. ACBSP recognizes, for example, that a superior faculty may include members having a variety of backgrounds and talents, academic preparation, and professional and scholarly accomplishments.

--same source

Seems, that under this language, professional activities may suffice in and of themselves, doesn’t it? Yep, sure does. While research is “strongly encouraged,” it is NOT required by ACBSP.

Well, you turned down the Maalox, how about some aspirin for that headache from getting slam dunked again?

This has been about ACBSP, not your personal experience, Andy. Too bad you got confused.

 

Jim - you've been slammed and dunked

Jim - You're hopeless! Too bad you didn't read the entire ACBSP docuemnt - you only read the summary. If you had read it all, you'd find the attached material. This isn't a "maybe" it is a "must". I have occasion to deal with ACBSP, and I can tell you that faculty development is important.

Again - I'm not saying that ACBSP has the same research focus that AACSB has - but to say, as you did, that "ACBSP faculty are welcome to do research. The difference -- it is from the heart or for intellectual gymnastics or whatever and not from a mandate for accreditation and tenure. " is false.

Faculty "must be actively involved in professional activities that will enhance the depth and scope of their knowledge and that of their disciplines, as well as the effectiveness of their teaching." They go on to point out that all four areas of "scholarship" as ACBSP defines it must be represented on a given school's faculty.

ACBSP has a broader concept of faculty development - but it isn't optional. Might one faculty member get tenure without publishing a scholarly publication - perhaps. But he/she has to show "professional development". Further, an institution as a whole cannot get by without showing scholarly activity in all four of the areas ACBSP has defined.

Please Jim - Pay attention!

Regards - Andy

From ACBSP Standards for Accreditation (bachelor/graduate):

Faculty members must be actively involved in professional activities that will enhance the depth and scope of their knowledge and that of their disciplines, as well as the effectiveness of their teaching. These may include scholarly research, publication, and/ or appropriate professional activities. The institution must demonstrate a reasonable balance of scholarly and professional activities by the faculty as a whole consistent with the stated institutional mission.

The concept of "actively involved" intentionally implies that meeting attendance, though desirable as a professional activity, is not sufficient to demonstrate active engagement in scholarship.

The concept of "reasonable balance" indicates that all four areas of scholarship and professional activities described below should be represented in the activities of the faculty as a whole. Though the extent of representation and the balance may vary from institution to institution based on mission, it is expected that students be exposed to faculty with a full range of scholarly and professional activities.

It is also expected that each faculty member be continuously and actively engaged in scholarship and professional development. If adjunct faculty provide a significant portion of instruction, they must also demonstrate their contribution to the scholarship and professional development of the department or school.

For the purposes of this standard, scholarship is defined to include four types of intellectual activity. They are: (1) the scholarship of teaching, (2) the scholarship of discovery, (3) the scholarship of integration, and (4) the scholarship of application. (*The following description of scholarship was drawn extensively from Scholarship Reconsidered: Priorities of the Professoriate, a special report from The Carnegie Foundation For the Advancement of Teaching.) These four types of scholarship are to be equally recognized, accepted, and respected, and the overall performance of each faculty member is to be carefully accessed and held to a high standard of excellence. Each of these types of scholarship is discussed further below:

 

Re: Jim - you've been slammed and dunked

What words don't you understand, Andy? "may include?" Are you saying that "scholarship," "publication," and "professional activities" are all synonyms for "research?"

Evidently, you forgot that ACBSP is INSTITUTION MISSION driven and the mission of the educational institution has a significant place is meeting/setting the varying requirements. Were a school's mission not settled on research in any way, shape or form, there are other adequate measures available for accreditation. Or did you mis-read that.

Now, if a school becomes accredited without research being part of the school's portfolio, then the research would be as I indicated. Not mandated by ACBSP, period.


jim

 

Jim - One more time! By the way Jim - How many ACBSP accreditation visits have you been involved in? How many ACBSP accredited schools have you taught at - or administered at?

My whole point in this discussion is that to "AACSB is all about research" and "ACBSP is all about teaching", is an over simplification of the truth. Yes - AACSB has higher research expectations than ACSBP. But AACSB also has teaching expectations and ACBSP does have "scholarship" expectations. Jim's statement that ACBSP doesn't require "research" is patently false - if only you read the document - and live through an ACBSP visit.

Regards - Andy

What word don't you understand - "it is expected "?

As for "scholarship", "publication" and "professional activities" - all are intellectual activities that faculty should be involved in. Again, I don't doubt that AACSB has a stronger "research" focus. however, ACBSP does require "scholarship" - in four forms ((1) the scholarship of teaching, (2) the scholarship of discovery, (3) the scholarship of integration, and (4) the scholarship of application.). This is mandated. This is required. A school has to demonstrate all four - subject to their mission. In my school's ACSBSP reaffirmation work we've been told that we need to demonstrate all four - or risk being put on "waivers" by ACBSP.

Perhaps you are not aware that AACSB also is "mission driven".

Just as it does with AACSB.

Jim - I'm sorry but I can't stop laughing. Are you blind, or did you not see the following: "Faculty members must be actively involved in professional activities that will enhance the depth and scope of their knowledge and that of their disciplines, as well as the effectiveness of their teaching... The concept of "reasonable balance" indicates that all four areas of scholarship and professional activities described below should be represented in the activities of the faculty as a whole." Some schools may have less of the "Scholarship of discovery" than others, but the idea is that there can't be an absence of any of the four. Further, if you read the definitions that ACSBP provides - there are elements of "research" and "publication" in all four areas.

Regards - Andy

 

Jim,
Good points. I might add that to even begin the AACSB accreditation process requires institutions to have a specified number of full-time tenured faculty. Since many institutions operate on part time faculty, this eliminates them from even starting the process. These insitutions can be members but cannot proceed with the process of seeking accreditation, which has nothing to do with the quality of education. Quite frankly, I would rather attend a "third tier" institute which uses instructers with real world experience than a "first tier" institute which uses tenured professors who have never worked in the real world.

jv