A Tour and Census of Palestine Year 1695

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Lerner, Jan 26, 2021.

  1. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member


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  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Even if this is reliable, do you see relevance to the current situation in that region? Both Jews and Arabs live there now, regardless of who lived there centuries ago.
  3. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I think the relevance is that sides are still in conflict. Documents such as this if reliable strengthen Jewish claim to this land.
    If majority of Palestinian Arabs from other Arab countries who came as a workers in 18th century and settled in that area (noting wrong with that) then different arguments are made if comparing to claims of continues presence.
    Eventually they need to come to agreement. Israeli Arabs are basically the same people while possibly different Palestinian tribes.
  4. pueblopicasso

    pueblopicasso New Member

    So, let's see here.

    You quoted an interpretation of Adriaan Reland's book off of a Wordpress posted by Nurit Greenger no less, rather than reading the actual Palaestina ex monumentis veteribus illustrata and Reland's attempt to be objectivist without the veiled and backhand rhetoric to come with it?
  5. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    It's my understanding that the interpretation is not by Nurit G, she pasted from another source.
    If its inaccurate or unreliable I would like to see other sources and opinions.
    I used to have a scanned copy of the reproduction of a book published before 1923.

    I'm also interested in Tsvi Jekhorin Misinai's research.
    Tsvi is an Israeli researcher, author, historian, computer scientist and entrepreneur.
    Tsvi spends most of his time researching and documenting the common Hebrew roots he believes shared by world Jewry and the Palestinians (including Arab citizens of Israel).
    Misinai states the topic of Hebrew origin was spoken of openly by people living in the area called by Romans Palestine the land of Israel until relatively recent history.
    In 1012, the al-Hakem Edict was issued, under which all Jews and Christians in the land of Israel and also know as area called by Romans - Palestine were ordered to either convert to Islam or leave.
    This led to the majority of non-Hebrew origin Christians (i.e., foreign Christians) to leave the Holy land, while over 90 per cent of Jews, Samaritans (also of Hebrew origin) and Hebrew-origin Christians converted and became Muslims.
    Or Crypto-Jews, and Crypto-Christians.
    When the edict was finally repealed in 1044 during the reign of Caliph Al-Mustansir of Cairo, only 25% of the Jewish converts to Islam returned to Judaism openly, although they too would remain Musta’arabi - Arabic-speaking Jews, largely Mizrahi and Maghrebi Jews.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
  6. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    One can read it on line if you know the Latin langue, some old Greek, Hebrew and Arabic.


    I'm also looking for the following paper:

    https://in.bgu.ac.il/en/humsos/art/eastandwestInMedievalandEarlyModernArt/Documents/Dr. Zur Shalev abstract.pdf

    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
  7. pueblopicasso

    pueblopicasso New Member

    Yes I have read the Latin version.

    I have also read Herodotus, which is written 2100 years before Reland.

    And for completeness, I have read Josephus and Philo.
  8. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    From the above, I read translations to English of Josephus still use the writings.
    Some Herodotus and some Philo.

    For my learning it appears in Herodotus’ time the Jews or Hebrews were not a very important people, certainly not enough to warrant a report on them.
    During Herodustus’ life, the Jews were under the rule of the Persians they were not a nation at that time.
    He indeed wrote about Philistines "Palestine" in 5th century BC as a district of Syria.
    Not to confuse with Palestinians of today. For example a 400 years of Ottomans who had offspring in this land are also Palestinians.
    The name derived from “Philistines” who were a sea people from the Aegean, of Indo_European origin who around 1200 BC had occupied much of the southern coast of Canaan.
    Area called Palestine was always "occupied" by different nations, people.
    Assyrians, Greek, Romans, Byzantine, Arabs, Turks, British etc.
    AS a person of faith view all land belongs to God, he takes and gives it.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021

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