A quick search on Monster.com

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Bruboy, May 18, 2007.

  1. Bruboy

    Bruboy New Member

    I did a search on Monster.com for keywords MBA and AACSB. The results are:

    MBA : > 5000 hits
    AACSB : 4 hits

    Three of the four AACSB hits were academic positions.
  2. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    That's very interesting. I did something similar a few years ago and didn't find any non-academic positions in which AACSB was a requirement. I wasn't able to find any job postings that mentioned ACBSP or IACBE.

    You're asking the right question; the data collection could be expanded to include other sources though. On the academic email lists that I monitor, about one third of the job postings mention AACSB.

  3. Bruboy

    Bruboy New Member

    A search for engineer also returned > 5000 hits, a search for engineers plus ABET returned 251 hits.

    Also since Proctor&Gamble and Intel have been mentioned in postings requiring AACSB accredited schools I did a seach on both company's sites for AACSB. I was unable to find any such requirement. I then went to each sites career section doing a search for AACSB requirements for any open positions. The search returned zero hits.

    I would also like to add that an informal survey of people that I've spoken to about education never heard of AACSB (or AACSP or IACBE), that includes management types that had received their degrees from AACSB accredited schools. My informal survey now spans several years.

    I just have a difficult time finding anyone outside the academic world that knows of or cares about a schools business accreditation. Sometimes even those representing the school are unaware of business school accreditation. For example, a couple of years ago a local reputable school, Centenary College, gave a presentation where I was employed for their MBA program offered both online and in the classroom. After the presentation was completed I asked the question "Is your MBA program accredited and if so my which accrediting body". The three presenters looked at me as if I had three heads. They simply did not know. It turns out that the school is IACBE accredited.

    Prior to reading posts on this board I was also oblivious to business schools accreditation. I truly believe that most do know of nor care whether a business school is accredited or not.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2007
  4. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    This really seems quite true to me; the business managers are generally unaware of programmatic accreditation in the business disciplines. At the masters level, AACSB generally means that the MBA holder has been exposed to more quantitative tools. At the doctoral level, AACSB means nothing in particular but a good housekeeping seal of approval to other AACSB schools.

  5. Vincey37

    Vincey37 New Member

    Interesting results, but I wouldn't use them to draw any conclusions on the value of AACSB. How many of those listings say, "Graduates from unranked MBA programs need not apply"? How many of them actually mean that? Dozens if not hundreds.

    I'll give an example from my industry on how business school accreditation is more complicated than it seems. Accounting firms love to see membership in Beta Alpha Psi, the national accounting honor society. School doesn't have AACSB? They can't have a BAP chapter.
  6. Mundo

    Mundo New Member

    Academic credentials are just one aspect of the personnel selection process. There are other qualities looked upon when HR departments select new employees such as the prospective employee’s general experience in their particular industry and specific experience in the vacant position.

    I agree with you in that general conclusions cannot be drawn based on informal research. We can always find individual cases (as in your example) that illustrate the necessity or utility of certain accreditation but that is not a reflection of the need for that accreditation in every industry.

    In my industry (aviation), academic credentials are just one part of the package. Having relevant experience, being familiar with the operational environment in which the company functions, and the possession of particular personality traits are also important in obtaining employment.

    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2007
  7. Bruboy

    Bruboy New Member

    I agree that AACSB accreditation does have value to some, I simply believe that it is not a requirement in many if not most situations. Although there were only 4 positions requiring AACSB accredition there were 251 positions requiring ABET accreditation.
  8. Bruboy

    Bruboy New Member

    I assume that you are in the accounting profession? I've heard that the CPA exams requirments are becoming more demanding with respect to course requirements. Are only graduates from AACSB accredited schools allowed to sit for the exam? If not, once a person passes the CPA exam what impact does an AACSB accredited business school have on their resume?
  9. glimeber

    glimeber New Member

    Interesting how the facts - once again - dispute the rhetoric on this forum.
  10. Jigamafloo

    Jigamafloo New Member


    The rhetoric of this thread seems to support that professional (i.e. AACSB) accreditation isn't the only path to a job. How does that "dispute" anything? :confused: :confused:

  11. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    If I may interpret... Some have asserted that AACSB business schools are vastly superior to non-AACSB schools. The writer above seems to be implying that if AACSB schools were vastly superior, then the AACSB designation would / could / should be found more in job postings by employers. The writer above could be right that AACSB schools instill no additional value in their graduates or perhaps instead the incremental value of AACSB business schools does exist and is not recognized by the general public.

  12. Vincey37

    Vincey37 New Member

    A minority of states have different requirements for AACSB schools. None require it. Although, two states do not allow fully DL degrees.

    I don't know enough about how HR works to tell you what impact the CPA certification has on the importance of what school was attended.
  13. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Don't know about Proctor & Gamble, but Intel's position was well documented in news stories last year in the Arizona Republic, because of its effects on the locally-based University of Phoenix. See their stories here and also here. According to the Republic, Intel won't reimburse for either non-AACSB business degrees or non-ABET engineering degrees.

    For Professional Engineering licensure, all states give preference to ABET degrees, and some require them. So any job posting that mentions engineering licensure (this would include most civil engineering jobs, but would exclude most other engineering jobs) also implies a preference for ABET degrees, whether or not ABET is explicitly mentioned.

    In most branches of engineering, there is really no need to specify that you want ABET accreditation for a position, because virtually all legitimate engineering schools have it. It's very difficult to find an RA or NA engineering program in a traditional branch of engineering that lacks ABET accreditation.

    If you tried a Monster.com search, I'll bet there would be few (or zero) job postings that explicitly required an "Ivy League" degree. Does this mean that an Ivy League degree doesn't make any difference to employers ?
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2007
  14. Bruboy

    Bruboy New Member

    I had worked for the old AT&T Bell Laboratories that required only ABET accredited degrees both for recruiting and reimbursement purposes. In fact when I went for the interview I was told to bring my diploma with me. Bell Labs was extremely sensitive to education. Evening degrees were frowned upon and carried lesser weight than those obtained by fulltime students. They were by far the exception to the rule. I would suspect that Intel is similar in its policies.
  15. Vinipink

    Vinipink Accounting Monster

    In my resume none, in accounting none, once you pass the exam, you are in! In Florida as long the school accredited no problem, they even provide a provision for those students with unaccredited degree, but even with accredited and AACSB the red tape can be a long process! I don’t think is hard now. Whereas, you can sit more times a year(4) than before used to be 2 a year, and the idea was to pass the exam either once or two part a time. Now you can take one part a time, less stress .
  16. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    My interpretations, which may at first seem contradictory, are as follows:

    (1) Most employers (except perhaps in academia) have no clue about business school accreditation, and are not familiar with AACSB, ACBSP, or IACBE.

    (2) Yet most employers prefer MBA degrees from AACSB-accredited schools. So you should try to get an AACSB degree if possible.

    How is this apparent contradiction resolved? Well, in general, employers will prefer graduates of well known, selective, and prestigious schools. And virtually all of the best known, most selective, and most prestigious business schools have AACSB accreditation.

    So in general, someone with an AACSB MBA will have an advantage in the job market over someone with a non-AACSB MBA. This is not because employers care about AACSB; they don't (as per point 1 above). But employers do care about name recognition, selectivity, and prestige, and these other factors happen to be strongly correlated with AACSB accreditation.
  17. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    I may have missed something, but ABET and various business accreditation do not really seem to mean the same thing. Am I wrong? Isn't the criteria for ABET that of regulated rules, laws, etc. of engineering, for example such as the IEEE standards? I may be way off here as I don't know much about ABET and may be confusing it with IT standards. Also, how long has ABET been around vs. the various business offerings? Does ABET have competition? ABET is required for licensing in various areas no? I don’t think ACBSP or the like are required for any type of licensing at least in Texas.

    As for seeing requirements for the various business accrediting organizations, I have seen it "preferred" but never required. I've never seen one actually spelled out but usually something like "national accreditation preferred" or "industry standard program" or some other vague hint in that direction. Though it is rare.
  18. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    ABET is a CHEA-recognized "Specialized and Professional Accrediting Organization," exactly like AACSB and ACBSP.
    ABET accredits degree programs in engineering and other technical disciplines (such as engineering technology, surveying, computer science, etc). They accredit practically all BS engineering programs in the US (they occasionally accredit MS programs as well, but only at schools that don't offer undergraduate degrees). ABET has nothing to do with engineering standards (maybe you are thinking of ASTM) or engineer regulation (maybe you are thinking of NCEES).
    ABET was founded in 1932, and has been accrediting engineering degree programs since 1936. AACSB was founded in 1916; they say that they started accrediting in 1919. The other business accreditors are much younger: ACBSP was founded in 1988, and IACBE in 1997.
    Not in the US. There are comparable bodies in other countries, many of which have mutual recognition agreements with ABET.
    All state engineering boards prefer ABET BS degrees for engineering licensure. Some states strictly require such degrees. In other states, it is possible to become licensed without an ABET BS degree, but in this case extra work experience or a graduate degree would be required.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 21, 2007
  19. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    One clarification: ABET accredits practically all BS engineering programs in the US, in traditional engineering disciplines subject to state licensure. This includes fields like civil, electrical, mechanical, or chemical engineering, or surveying. It would be very unusual for an RA or NA school to offer non-ABET degrees in such disciplines.

    Other technical disciplines, such as biomedical engineering, aerospace engineering, engineering technology, or computer science, are not subject to state licensure. ABET accreditation is often perceived as optional for such programs, and so legitimate RA or NA schools may not have it.
  20. Petedude

    Petedude New Member

    It's more like this. . .

    AACSB can be a bragging point. If you have an AACSB-accredited degree, you can claim in your resume/interview to be a graduate of a business school that has exclusive accreditation in its field.

    That, and I get the impression good AACSB schools typically have good reputations anyway-- having a better school and better resources means they'll earn it. For example, a friend of mine used to repeatedly mention the reputation of Cal State's accounting program. I doubt he's aware of the AACSB accreditation, but having earned that accreditation gives the university the tools to earn their reputation.

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