A question originally for Dr. Bear

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by bkeithb, May 16, 2003.

  1. bkeithb

    bkeithb New Member

    I am investigating several doctoral options at present (to include Baptist Bible Seminary, Luther Rice Seminary) -- both accredited and non-accredited.

    In that regard I have been looking at Columbia Evangelical Seminary and have been fairly impressed with what I have been seeing. But, I'm just beginning my investigation. To that end, I wrote the following email (but it bounced back) . . . so thought I'd post it and see the response I got from you folk. Please take the remark about "doctoral students with too much time, etc." as tongue firmly in cheek. :D
    Dear Dr. Bear,

    I am an admirer of your work and a frequent visitor to both the Degree.net site as well as the forums (where it is evident that some doctoral students have way too much time on their hands . . . ha!).

    You are a busy man so I will not take up your valuable time. I've read your recommendation of Dr. Walston's Columbia Evangelical Seminary (on their web site). I am seriously considering earning a doctoral degree through CES. As a doctoral degree would be for expanded knowledge and ministry (and to achieve a personal goal), and not for teaching, an unaccredited degree is appropriate for me. However, I want to work with a credible unaccredited program. In your opinion, does CES fit this bill?

    Thank you for your time.

    Keith Brumley
  2. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Josh Walston and I have been friends for many years, the improbable linking of the evangelical charismatic Christian and the unregenerate and generally agnostic Jew. He has always seemed sincere and well-meaning in his actions and activities, although others here have challenged this. But I am really not a person who can comment on the usefulness, now or future, of the sort of education you'll get at CES. If you are firmly convinced that an unaccredited degree will meet your present and predictable future needs (and you don't live in Oregon, New Jersey, Tennessee, and any other states that may make such degrees illegal), then this one may serve you well. And you might also want to look at the place where Walston earned his most recent doctorate, the long-established and well-accepted Potchefstroom University (as done through the Greenwich School of Theology)
  3. bkeithb

    bkeithb New Member

    Thanks Dr. Bear

    I appreciate the information. Thank you very much.

    I may not have been clear. My first choice, of course, is an accredited doctorate (e.g., Luther Rice). But if that proves impractical, I would opt for a credible unaccredited degree.

    I will check into the program you mentioned as well.

    Thanks again . . .
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Thanks Dr. Bear


    As you are aware LRS has some famous alumni such as Charles Stanley, Stephen Olford, Spiro Zodhiates (??), and Dorothy Patterson (more famous for being the wife of Paige but she does have tow accredited doctorates of her own). Their program is also affordable (136 per month ??) plus some short residencies and graduation in Atlanta.

    The esteemed Bearmeister has a good suggestion with PUCHE through Greenwich. Although they have raised their fees, they are still quite affordable and very well respected.

    If you want even less expensive then UNIZUL (University of Zululand) is less than $2000 for the doctoral program (the whole program). UNIZUL is a South African State University. The Department head is Bobby Loubser who has a very good curriculum vitae (?).

    At both PUCHE & UNIZUL you do a research doctorate (all dissertation...no coursework) in the British tradition. I would say PUCHE has the better theology reputation but it you want and affordable and solid DTh then UNIZUL is good (also have PhD).

    Good luck.

    North {who also thinks Ric is an honest/nice guy).
  5. bkeithb

    bkeithb New Member

    Thank you as well, North

    I appreciate your info as well. I've taken the time to look at both the S. African universities you mention and have bookmarked them.

    What language requirements are there for these programs (I have 4 yr. of Greek but only 1 yr. Hebrew, no German or French)?

    Thanks again . . .
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Thank you as well, North

    I do not know about PUCHE. Russell Morris could answer more.

    UNIZUL it depends on the field you are doing your doctorate in. If it is a DTh in Practical Theology then there are not necessarily any (other than English). Other fields in the DTh. do require languages (as I assume do the PhD)..

    You can e-mail the UNIZUL theology faculty. I have found them very quick to respond and helpful.

    ** I should add that as I said above, LRS ia also quite affordable and well recognized. I guess the benefit with PUCHE & UNIZUL is that you get academic doctorates which are generally held in higher regard than the DMin. In fact if you look at the UNIZUL theology regs they definitely state that the DMin is not a doctorate for teaching as it is a professional doctorate (unlike the PhD & DTh which they reagrd as the highest academic degree in a given field). So, depends what you want to do with your doctorate.

    Unfortunately, even among clergy I have found some negative thoughts concerning the DMin as a degree. In one case it was a higher up military chaplain who was totally confused about what a DMin was in relation to doctorates & EdD's & PhD's. I tried to educate him with US Dept of Ed/NSF designations etc but to no avail. To him a DMin was doctorate light compared to EdD & PhD (in spite of the fact that there are 60 credit hour RA programs such as that at SCU).

  7. bkeithb

    bkeithb New Member

    S. African PhD/ThD may be way to go

    Thanks "North" for your help. I appreciate it. I've also looked at a "Charles Sturt University" in Australia [http://wwwdb.csu.edu.au/division/marketing/PR_Menus/PR_Menusp8.htm] which has both a distance DMin and PhD program apparently. Have you heard of them?

    I am leaning towards LRS for the DMin (I have no qualms about the legitimacy of the degree). I was looking at ACCS but it appears (from your posts elsewhere) that they may not keep the TRACS accreditation. I am sorry for your frustration. I would also very much like to do the PhD at Bible Baptist Seminary (in PA) but the languages may hold me back (the require Greek & Hebrew . . . and maybe theological German?).

    If this doesn't pan out, then I'll look at the S. African or Australian schools or CES's non-accredited but apparently credible ThD program.

    Thanks again ...
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Good luck.

    LRS is indeed very legit and as I mentioned has some quite well known alumni (as well as a whose who of S. Baptist alumni). They are also very affordable. Unfortunately(for me), their doctoral programs are not VA approved due to the structure (not quality).


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