A Generation of American Men Give Up on College: ‘I Just Feel Lost’

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Dustin, Sep 6, 2021.

  1. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    75% of the workforce is in a job not related to their degree but they still outperform those who skipped college.
  2. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    An institution that backs up its supposed superiority by pointing out that others 1) teach subjects this one school doesn't like 2) let kids earn credit in high school (gasp!) and 3) have online classes (double gasp!). Fallacy. One can make a case that a unique curriculum makes transfer unpractical, but they don't argue this way, nod do they?

    It's easy to win rigor Olympics if you get to decide what constitutes "rigor". Here, let me try: does this college require advanced Calculus for a Liberal Arts degree? No? Mickey Mouse!

    Finally, this is a TRACS school. Which makes their diplomas less recognized. So their pitch here is "do more work (of the kind we DECLARE to be useful) and get an inferior credential". I'm pretty sure my daughters would pass on this opportunity, thank you very much.
  3. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Precisely. Many of them use skills they gained in "useless" majors, like economics. Back to AOC.
  4. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    In the 2017-2018 school year, over 27,000 engineering degrees were awarded to women while only 5,500 "studies" degrees were awarded to women. Why do we keep hearing about these studies degrees? Hundreds of thousands of women earn business degrees, but the stereotype is that women are earning ethnic and gender studies degrees which rank toward the bottom in popularity.

    Almost 60% of college students are women. Why wouldn't we have around 60% of the student loan debt?
  5. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    Hi Dustin, by chance would you have a citation for that? I agree, not disagreeing at all, but would like to delve further into any interesting studies on it.
  6. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    Vonnegut likes this.
  7. Buzz ... and thank you for playing. She was entered by a friend into the dem political process the year before she won the dem nomination for her district. It really helps to use facts and avoid hyperbole. ;)
  8. WADR for both of you. In the US, at this time, Black "parents" (plural) are a distinct minority. The correct phrase is "mothers".
  9. Worth watching

  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

  11. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Kevin Samuels? Really? He's the guy claiming that Black women are lying about domestic violence because he's only known one Black woman who's been abused. He's also called Black women the least attractive. Are we now using twice-divorced, college dropout, crime-committing shock jocks who don't pay their child support as sources in serious discussions? LOL
    Graves likes this.
  12. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    If black daughters are being held to a higher standard, then rampant single motherhood for black women (a serious issue that has been shown to have a direct effect toward unfavorable numbers for crime and mental health in the children of all races, but most impactful in the black community), rampant obesity in black women, and an incredibly low marriage rate for black women--all having become such a crisis--would suggest that the said "higher standard" black daughters are being held to isn't working well. If anything, black women and black men who are most affected by the cycle are simply exhibiting the damage that results from being raised in a single mother household, just in different but equally destructive ways.

    I see that black women have been doing a lot to become more educated, and that's great, but the far greater and devastating aforementioned issues persist in alarmingly high numbers.
  13. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Better doesn't mean perfect or even acceptable. But, the low marriage rates among Black women, which are also extremely low among Black men, have a lot to do with incarceration, homicide, and unemployment among Black men.
  14. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    I have never heard of him, but after about ten minutes of randomly hopping in and listening to that video... I'm saddened if anyone is actually taking his positions seriously.
  15. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    True. However, black women's rate is even lower than that, and black men are able to marry out at over twice the rate (15%) that black women do (7%).

    I don't care for Kevin Samuel's style. His past is not great either, but many of us have a past with things we'd rather forget we were a part of. That said, his core message to black women of being "fit, friendly, cooperative with the man you choose to be with, and waiting until marriage to have children" would fix an enormous deal of the issues I pointed out that black women are in. So removing Kevin Samuels from the equation, I ask: who can tell black women about these issues that need to be fixed without angry pushback? Because I have seen some black women say the exact same things as his core message and doing so without a similar checkered past to Kevin Samuels', but they still got attacked by other black women in the same manner.
  16. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Black women outnumber Black men. Black men choose to marry out at a higher rate. That's the difference. The vast majority of interracial marriages with Black men are with White women. That combination has the highest divorce rate out of any ethnic/racial combination. Additionally, most biracial children with a Black father are born out of wedlock, and their parents have even more relationship instability than monoracial Black couples. White women who cohabitate with Black men are just as likely as Black women to face domestic violence. They're also just as likely to become single mothers.

    There are Black women telling Black women to choose higher quality partners. Due to limited options within the Black community, more Black women will have to date interracially. The divorce rate between Black women and White men is very low. There could be some self-selection bias that is leading to better outcomes in these marriages, but it's interesting to see Black women doing better while Black men do worse in interracial relationships.
  17. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    Where's the hyperbole? The claim was that getting a "Studies" degree leads to jobs that aren't related to their degrees, and you cited AOC being a waitress as proof that she was not qualified(?)

    AOC double-majored in Economics and International Relations. She interned in Senator Ted Kennedy's office. She launched and ran a small business for 4 years, Brook Avenue Press, and was Educational Director at the National Hispanic Institute (NHI). That's not an unusual resume for a young Member of Congress. She was elected at 29.

    Paul Ryan double majored in Economics and Political Science. He interned in Senator Bob Kasten's office, was a speechwriter for the 501c4 FreedomWorks, spent 2 years as Legislative Director for Sam Brownbeck and worked for a year as a marketing consultant at his family's small business. He was elected at 29.
  18. Acolyte

    Acolyte Active Member

    "not related to their degree" - That entire phrase makes no sense to me. A good 50+% of a bachelor's degree program is made up of developing and expanding broad skillsets like writing, reading for comprehension, synthesizing information from multiple sources, math, understanding statistics, the basics of economics, a deeper understanding of history etc. Not to mention managing the course load / time commitment. Those are not career specific skills.
  19. skirtlet

    skirtlet Member

    I wonder if it's been a good thing for us to encourage "everyone" to go to college right after high school. Some people would earn more and be in less debt if they went into a trade (electrical work, etc.). Others would be happier working from the get-go. Some do better with a gap in their education so they have a better idea of what they want to, and can, do for a career. Some can't afford school, even with a full-time job if there's not a cheap option near them (and they don't have strong internet access). Others are caring for aging family members or their own kids. I love education, but I don't think college is the answer for 'everyone.' Are we devaluing the BS/BA degree, just like we have devalued the high school diploma that used to be enough to get a good job starting out?
  20. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    FWIW… pretty much need a degree in the trades as well now, especially for electricians.

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