$50,000,000,000,000 federal debt by the time Biden (or Harris) leaves office?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by SpoonyNix, May 11, 2021.

  1. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I don't like double taxation either and I'm actually supposed to know something about it. (I don't really.) There are some serious risks in eliminating taxation at the entity level but double taxation, among other things, gives a significant advantage to debt as opposed to equity finance. Debt finance carries its own systemic risks to the economy. I am not a tax analyst. I think it would be a fascinating line of work but at my age I'm not looking to earning degrees in economics or public administration. But based on the little I do know, I think I'd like to see Congress consider a few reforms. First, corporations and all other business entities should pay taxes on an equal footing. Second, the taxes paid should be distributed to the equity owners (partners or members or shareholders or whomever) as some sort of credit against their personal tax liability. Third, no interest paid by anyone, individual, investor, estate, trust or business, should ever be tax deductible. Period. Not allowed. Fourth, no business entity may ever borrow money for the purpose of buying out equity stakes.

    Unconnected with these but while I'm on the subject, I'd eliminate the charitable deduction for all purposes, both for corporations and individuals, and I would end the granting of tax exemptions to so-called "Private foundations" and "Donor advised funds."

    Well, criticize away if you want; I don't have enough real understanding to know whether I'm right or wrong. But that's how it looks to me.
  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Like what? (Not a criticism. ;) )
  3. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Mostly its a matter of collecting at the source which is easier to verify and taxing U.S. source income to foreign entities. All the books are here, you see.
  4. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    There's also the non-trivial problem of sheltering accumulated untaxed earnings.
  5. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    "Politics" is literally defined as an art of making decisions in groups of humans. Emphasizing individuality is one reason a "one nation under God, indivisible" that used to be able to defeat the Nazis and put a man on the Moon now can't agree to wear a piece of cloth to defend against a deadly virus.

    Try to guess the source of this:
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Um, so we need to... make America great again? Because just like the people who wear those hats, you're describing eras when oppression silenced opposition as if they were magical times of consensus.

    I'm not Catholic, so I'm unsure the relevance.
  7. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    "Being able to do stuff" is not "magical times of consensus". It's more like, you know, being minimally functional. Not being wiped out by plagues, etc. I'd argue that freedom to be an ass to thy neighbour is the core appeal of the red hat propaganda.

    Sure, sure. I'm just saying concepts and attitudes expressed are neither new nor particularly left-wing. I wonder how eg. Paul Ryan reconciles his brand of policy with this.
  8. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I can't help but wonder whether Canada's flailing vaccine rollout counts as "minimally functional". And I'm not cherry-picking Canada to get your goat, that one is personal for me, as my fiancée's family is all in B.C. and remain woefully underprotected while even my teenage son in the U.S. has been fully vaxxed for weeks.

    Anyway, public health strikes me as difficult even under ideal conditions, and I'd be the first to agree with you that it's a lot more unnecessarily difficult when significant parts of the population won't listen to public health officials.

    It really does seem that way, doesn't it? And it's not just conservatives. I've seen this more and more in the libertarian movement, the culture of which has changed in the last ten years or so to be much more tolerant of (or even embrace) overt callousness. I didn't see that ten years ago.

    Those on the left also seem a lot more intolerant of different ideas, I remember when the principle of charity wasn't alien to left-liberals, now it seems like the quickest way to get called a racist is to disagree with a leftist on just about anything. (If you think I'm exaggerating, go promote school choice on Twitter.)

    I don't think the social media era has been very good for any of us, myself admittedly included.

    For one thing, Catholic politicians on both sides of the aisle (at least in the U.S.) seem to have little trouble disregarding the teachings of their religion when they become politically inconvenient. For another, I wouldn't call the Catholic Church as a whole either left wing or right wing, I'd say that its teachings on worldly matters tend to be in the authoritarian quadrant of the Nolan chart.
  9. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    That's your basic government incompetence, versus the loss of "we are in it together" idea I am talking about. I hate to agree with Steven Harper on anything, but just maybe these mean "he's Just not ready" ads were on to something. Pity, because if Mr. Sunny Ways finally loses government, it will fall onto Conservatives. Blegh.

    No, it wasn't - but I really don't think this was all it was. I believe the distaste for common good became one of the core ideas in Conservative discourse, and that attracts hordes of people with some kind of flaw in their psyche.

    On the topic of "school choice" - I get that Internet warriors overreact, I really do. But there are things to overreact to. School choice promoters online are vegans of parenting in smugness, for one. The idea itself, though... Individually, I will go for any option that gives my kids the best chance in life - but there's no reason to ignore darker consequences. Big part of the "school choice" movement arose in reaction to school integration, and the whole idea is hostile to any sense of "collective" that exists in this country. I love my daughters' charter schools, they are delightful and not at all "racist". However, they cater to this nice little neighborhood that is visibly whiter (and Trumpier) than the city and the regular school district (Hispanic-majority). Are we to postulate that their very existence has 0% to do with race?

    I don't think I agree with that. Besides, my ancestral faith is Eastern Orthodoxy, and you should hear how heavily some in these corners push "obedience" as highest virtue. Certain legalism and defined "chain of command" in RCC tends to work better in practice, or so I feel at the moment.

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