3 Years Plus Online JD

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by MaceWindu, Jul 18, 2024.

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  1. MaceWindu

    MaceWindu Active Member

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  2. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    It is best for ONLINE, but not BEST for Employment. I think Northeastern University's FlexJD is the only worth to do online.
     
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  3. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I've had to back off my "don't go to law school" advice. The market for new grads is improving. Do it as cheap as possible, though.
     
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  4. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    I agree; I want to get into Corporate Law at a certain point. But if I don't graduate from tier one, or at least tier 2 law school....it is tough in the market. Pretty much tier 1 is ranked from # 1 to 20, and tier 2: from 21 - 40.
    URL: https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings?_sort=my_rankings-asc
     
  5. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Criteria? Beyond "cheap as possible," because I'm wondering if there are some "cheap" options that would still be a bad idea.

    Part time okay? Online okay? CalBar accredited okay? CalBar registered? I don't know where you stand, but readers of this board will certainly value your opinion.
     
  6. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Those are really hard questions as I expect you know. It depends on what you want. If you are after a Big Law job, you need to go to a school that big firms recruit from. Harvard, Columbia, Chicago, Stanford, like that. If you want to teach, well, Yale dominates that market but law professors come from many other places as well.

    But if you are flexible and willing to move for that first job, look for the school that will leave you with the least debt because you will find a job somewhere. UNM was perfect for me because it was very cheap, dominates the New Mexico market, and I lived nearby.

    Pay no attention to rankings.

    Cal Bar schools are getting scarcer these days. My thinking there is that there are no reasonably sticker priced ABA law schools in the Golden State if you missed UC Irvine's free tuition extravaganza. If you can't land a big scholarship AND you can't imagine leaving California (The surf, Dude! It's awesome!), you might consider a Cal Bar school. I'd hesitate though if it cost more than, say, 50% of a UC degree.

    I'd also consider whether to attend one of the Cal Bar schools that belong to a university. I'm thinking specifically of Laverne. Again, keep debt as low as you can.

    Just my observations.
     
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  7. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    If you are interested in becoming a California lawyer by correspondence it can be done. We have a couple of people here who did it. It's hard. Really hard. It's also cheap. Really cheap. About D/L law study, ABA or Cal Bar, I don't know. Looks hard and NOT cheap but I don’t know.
     
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  8. sideman

    sideman Well Known Member

    Ah yes, US News (and World Report). The self proclaimed, all knowing, ranker of all colleges and cars. Looking through this list, I agree with the first 20, but even then they seem to have some that are either tied (i.e. Stanford and Yale at #1; Duke, Harvard, University of Pennsylvania, University of Virginia all at #4, et al). Or maybe they just don't want to place any lower than the others?

    In my extended family, I have a niece that graduated from University of Cincinnati (Ranked #78). When she attended and graduated there, back in the 90's, I couldn't tell you what the ranking was. Nor did she evidently care. But she had no problem finding a job straight away as a corporate attorney, practiced in a boutique firm, and now heads up a legal team that represents a group of hospitals in Ohio. Also, I've worked with (and hired) a number of Houston attorneys that graduated from University of Houston (Ranked #68), that graduated over a 40 year span, and seem to be doing well. At least they've taken a good chunk of my money. Ha! And others that were grads of South Texas College of Law (I stopped at the 100th ranking), that are and were fine lawyers. Anecdotal? Sure. But there can be light at the end of the tunnel if you look for it.

    Regardless, I believe it depends on the prospective student's situation. If you're mid-career, with a family, and you want to scratch an itch for law school, online is a workable option. It takes away the commuting element of time (and anyone that has a family really understands the value of time) and time is a very important commodity when studying law. And one of the positive things to come out of Covid and the pandemic, was that some law schools realized they had to be flexible and offer online classes to stay competitive, fill seats---even if virtual, and continue to stay in the education business of law school. So score one for those that could never entertain the chance to attend law school, much less graduate with a law degree and practice law.
     
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  9. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    You don't need US News to tell you which schools people generally believe (however questionably) are the top tier, and no one care about what order the rest come in, as they're all perfectly serviceable.
     
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  10. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Exactly. So go where the debt will be lowest when you're done.
     
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  11. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Is there a point where the source of the degree is irrelevant?

    Is there a point where even having the degree is irrelevant? (One can still become licensed as an attorney without going to law school.)
     
  12. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Almost irrelevant maybe, other than teaching or Big Law. A J.D. from any ABA approved or provisionally approved school will meet the legal education requirements for any state or territory. But...one school might be a better choice than another in, say, state government if only because the hiring committee will have a grad of that school on it. Frankly, if you want a higher level appointment with the New Mexico Attorney General, a UNM J.D. will serve at least as well and possibly better than one from Duke or Michigan.
     
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  13. JoshD

    JoshD Well-Known Member

    Hate on Michigan but don’t hate on Duke. ;)

    For whatever reason, I’ve had a handful of folks ask my opinion on law school stuff…weird because I have zero knowledge of law school but the advice I always give is:

    You want Big Law? Go to the T-14. You want something other than that? Go to the cheapest ABA Accredited.

    That is the extent of my knowledge and advice. Lol
     
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  14. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Not hating on Duke!
     
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  15. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    You know...had I to do it over...U Montana Missoula!
     
  16. jonlevy

    jonlevy Active Member

    Source of the law degree is irrelevant if you are self employed. If you want a job, ABA accredited is the standard. However AI is really going to upend the field as many tasks lawyers and law firms charge for will be automated. Additionally, many small to medium size law firms have essentially become virtual while still paying the office overhead. The tuition charged by law schools in the US far exceeds any value or knowledge imparted. If I was doing it over again, I 'd attend law school in the Cayman Islands for far less tuition - https://www.caymanlawschool.ky/index.html
     
  17. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Irrelevant if your degree is Bar qualifying in the state where you want to practice. AI has already made big inroads into law practice. So have online resources. The best part of that is that it may reduce to cost of legal advice and representation. Right now, most middle-class Americans cannot afford to hire a lawyer even where they badly need one. It's gotten worse over the last twenty or thirty years. Something like 75% of divorces in our local District Court have no lawyers involved now. That figure was closer to 25% in the past.
     
  18. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Jonlevy, what would you do with a Cayman Islands LL.B.?
     
  19. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I don't know. I've hired an attorney exactly twice in my life. One was for a divorce some 30 years ago. I was really grateful because her unique perspective (she'd been married to a Navy officer) put us in a strong negotiating position. I did really well in that. The other was the Okpala law suit. Not only did we win that, we also got an anti-SLAPP judgment against him. (Which I never tried to collect since it would have cost more to get it than the amount involved.)

    In both situations, it was a pleasure to pay my attorneys!

    (In other things, like our wills, we used an online service and a notary.)
     
  20. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    It's depressing. I don't know how to do anything anymore. I can't even figure out how to file a pleading under our new e file system.

    Sigh.

    Then again, do I really want to represent a client? Really? No.
     

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