“Firestorm” About Liberty University Reopening

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Jonathan Whatley, Mar 29, 2020.

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  1. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Episcopalians (the U.S. branch of the Anglican Communion) use a silver chalice and port wine. (No spoon! WTF?!) Both are because of tradition rather than current concerns, but apparently both precious metals and higher-alcohol wine have anti-microbial properties. (Not that the churches are open at this point.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2020
  2. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I have my doubts silver will be enough to reliably protect from the virus.


    This is, unfortunately, Patriarch Kirill of Moscow communing Russian soldiers, but it gives a very good idea how it is. When a priest prepares Communion, he uses a special pokey thing ("a spear") to take little pieces of the Host (prosphora, little leavened breads) and puts them into Chalice with wine (diluted with water. Remember, we commune children, including infants). We commune under both forms. I'm not sure how that would then work without a spoon. Not sure what they do now ( I heard they either do individual spoons or put it into individual cups that then should be properly disposed; you can't just throw the Sacrament into garbage). Most sane churches now serve without the laity, maybe just with choir. Orthodox Church of Ukraine was way more cooperative from the beginning; it's young Primate Met. Epiphaniy is actually very reasonable man. The Primate of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church Maj. Abp. Svyatoslav is also young, reasonable, and kinda resembles his newer counterpart.

    Kyiv Caves Monastery is headquarters of the Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine (rival Orthodox Church of Ukraine headquarters are in St. Michael's Golden Domed Monastery, also in Kyiv). What happens there is a great tragedy, but frankly I have trouble feeling too sad about it. For one, Met. Pavel is grotesquely unlikable guy, who once bragged to a national TV crew (on camera) how he placed a death curse on a business leasing a room at the Monastery (over some business dispute apparently), and three of the employees indeed died. And that's just what is on video. He did put a bunch of parishioners (many elderly) in grave danger; hope nothing worse grows out of this.
     
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Episcopalians commune kids too, and undiluted, but it's not like they're getting a lot of port. And if it keeps them quiet during the conclusion of the service, so much the better.
     
  4. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    How do they manage without the spoon? No bread?
    I've been to Anglican Mass once, didn't pay attention to this part.
     
  5. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    Student files class-action lawsuit against Liberty University over coronavirus response (Harper Neidig, The Hill, April 14, 2020)
     
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    People either dip the wafer into the chalice (called "tincture") or else just eat the wafer, and then sip from the chalice.
     
  7. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I see.
    I just found out that official emergency way to give communion in Orthodox Church of Ukraine is preparing little pieces of bread (we don't do wafers) dipped in wine and give them individually in hands of a communicant. Reasonable. Also, Met. Epiphanius called on faithful to stay home (and it's the Holy Week). In contrast Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine's head Met. Onufriy said to gather near churches to pray; less than ideal.

    Holy Week and especially Easter Sunday is THE #1 attendance (and offerings) day for the Orthodox; in post-Soviet countries many people ONLY attend on Easter. This must be devastating for the churches, financially. My former parish in Toronto was already struggling; it must be quite a blow for them. It didn't help that the aging regulars got concerned that "the immigrants are taking over" and basically drove us out; the priest requested transfer to Saskatchewan. So I have no real clue how they cope now.
     
  8. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    I'm pretty sure the pattern of many people just attending on Christmas and Easter is an ecumenical phenomenon. And I think you're right about church finances, but then things are getting tough all over, and probably about to get a lot tougher.
     
  9. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I am sure it is. For us, Easter is the bigger of the two. I have some insight on the church finance as I was on the board of that parish, and my wife a treasurer, for a year. Turned out to be a major mistake tbh. Easter attendance and the rest of the year (including Christmas) is night and day; Christmas season moneymaker is the Feast of Epiphany fundraising dinner. Well, that is not my concern anymore; when (not if) that parish finally goes under and gets to liquidate it's oh so juicy Toronto real estate, almost everyone involved will be happy. No one cares about 60 years of history.
     

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