Unbelievable Value! Ph.D.

Certainly you would have comparable chance of being hired as a graduate of a South African university as being a graduate of NorthCentral or Touro because they're likely no more well-known, and in some cases, not as well-known as their SA counterparts.

The one thing that you can lose by going to South Africa *in most fields* is that supervisor who will help you get a job at a U.S. university. It's a tough job market for academics in most subject areas. You need every advantage.



Tom Nixon

 

Research not current with the degree?

There is NO requirement for the research to be current? ... or don't they know about this? I can understand early work published or otherwise being referred to, but being incorporated into this degree?

Also, your supervisiors are NOT coversant with your questions, data collection etc., and are not overviewing it?

This being so, unless I have misunderstood you, HOW then do they determine that this is YOUR work?

This must be unprecedented or there is amassive gap between standards here and there ...

I am NOT having a go at you - I am just trying to be clear about the system, and line it up with what we endure out here. To be quite honest I don't 'understand' the process, and this must raise doubts of the verity of the work of at least some scholars!

 

I consider myself very fortunate in this regard. I am entering into PhD research at the University of Pretoria, which is highly regarded in my academic discipline. The professor who will be supervising my research there is the president of an international scholarly society. One of his most recent books, published by a major US publishing company, is being read and discussed widely within my academic discipline in the US. He has an on-going relationship with Princeton Seminary that involves him making frequent trips there. In addition, he has been the keynote speaker to several US academic societies. I trust that, in addition to the benefits of affordability and flexibility that come with doing my PhD through Pretoria, I will benefit immensely from the reputation of my supervisor.

 

I thought you were a Matie not a Tukkie?? I must have missed something somewhere ...

Pretoria is also a fine university (and the largest face-to-face university in the country), though it lacks the je ne sais quoi of Stellenbosch.

 

Re: Research not current with the degree?

I had some of those same questions as well. One thing in his favor is that it is in English which, as a field, changes much more slowly than, for example computer science.

In his defense, his previous work was for a doctorate, so it is not as if he is trying to use his master's thesis or trying to string together a series of articles.

He was conducting doctoral level research that, for whatever reason, was never completed. Should he throw this out? I don't think so. As long as his supervisor is satisfied with where he is in his research, that seems reasonable.


Tom Nixon

 

Re: Re: Research not current with the degree?

Points noted Tom, but maybe that is where the difference lies between the SA degree and one here, as any school here that openly or knowlingly accepted previous research in this context, would be in trouble. Our theses are sent outside of the university complete with a lot of background information as to the actual research etc., and for example will be examined by 2 Australian experts on the field and 3 overseas.

Maybe that explains why SA degrees are not automatically guaranteed here for acceptance. I am currently training teachers at a large private K-12 college which has recruited teachers from SA and they are regarded as 'unqualified' here ... it is NOT be the case from US as there are some identical ones from US, who are regarded as 'qualified'.

Interesting ... but may explain the 'hesitancy' I have noted re SA degrees generally from time to time. At a groups of IT colleges wher I was national GM, we regarded all SA qualifications as having no value - a bit tought but it was board policy.

So that all who read here understand if they try it in Australia, it won't work - it is a very clear condition of candidacy as is the requirement that you are NOT studying elsewhere concurrently - which is also something I have noticed with many correspondents.

 

Peter: I really don't understand your problem. There is no dissertation I have ever heard of that was not based on the student's previous work. Indeed a great many expand, update, and rework a previous master's thesis. Since I would have to do a complete review of secondary literature anyway, what is the difference? I still have to update the secondary research. This all means that I would have to rewrite and recast a great deal of material to make it current. If one has previous work that is in fact one's own, and it has never been submitted for the degree in question, and it is made current in terms of theory and secondary sources, and it is a good idea and has largely not been done before, one would have to be stupid not to finish it. I mean this work is not twenty years old. It was just a few years ago. I think many people have transfered during the dissertation phase and completed the same or very similar work. My dissertation was not finished because I had a family to support, one of my people suddenly retired, and then died, and one moved to England to teach there (my director). As to how they tell the work is mine, it would be the same as at any school--they talk to me, see numerous rough drafts, see changes in the writing responding to their requests, see the inclusion of new primary material that they request and so on. Virtually none of the accepted writing ended up being exactly as it was at UCR--it is longer, more focused and much more theologically oriented. It has all been heavily rewritten. Still four years of research and rough drafting should make the process a little faster.

Blessings

 

Bill: My fault for not clarifying. The chapters, while based on previously written chapters, are heavily revised and rewritten. My ideas on the subject have shifted. In my defense, let me remind people that I was ABD at the University of California, and that I am completing a long worked upon Ph.D. in English, over 175 units (3.9 GPA) at UCR, over five years in residence, at an RA/BM school. I did not just waltz into Vista with no background and two rough drafts of unreviewed cahapters. If the work is mine, which it is, it is mine; if it has not been previously submitted for a degree, it is perfectly standard practice here, in SA, and possibly even in that academic heaven, Australia, that the work be submitted for a degree as long as it has been brought up to date, revised to cover new ideas on the subject, and remains my work. As you point out, you have a lot of units in Biblical studies, and should be more than qualified to evaluate doctoral level research in that field. I have well over 225 graduate (all RA, all BM) units in English, including an MA. There is a pretty good chance I know what is happening in that field.

Blessings

 

Bill (and Peter) Its cool, no problem.

Blessings

 

.

 

Craig, is this a dissertation only program or do you have to go through a battery of coursework in the style of most US universities?

 

Bill G: "But I do see a parallel in Peter's points here to the infamous discussion on Walston's SA Potch PhD dissertation. It may be recalled that in that nearly everlasting thread Ed and I argued that the dissertation should not have passed as it did not meet established research requisites of schools elsewhere or even Potch's own criteria or even those promised in its own introduction. It may be recalled that friend Walston had written two (?) previous dissertations on that same subject for degrees from two other schools.

Nevertheless, despite many good points being made by Ed, both he and I were soundly chastised here and said to have pride or envy or that we were possessed of other unworthy motivations for our comments , instead of love for the discipline and a sense of duty to academe, for daring to criticise what Potch had done."


Dave: Good points, Bill. I love to see reference made to what I think of as the "Uber-thread". There has been no better discussion on this board of quality and academic integrity, and you and Ed Komoszewski were dead on right.

 

You are correct that, at last report, I had every intention of proceeding with the DTh at Stellenbosch. However, over the course of the last few months, I have been going through a process that has led me away from Stellenbosch. Because of developments in my professional life, it was becoming increasingly clear that I would face difficulties in gaining permission to travel to Stellenbosch to complete the time in residence that was being expected of me. Futhermore, and perhaps more significantly, while the professor with whom I was relating at Stellenbosch was exceptionally responsive and helpful, I experienced profound frustration in my communications with EVERYONE else at Stellenbosch from whom I sought information or assistance. This caused me to develop a rather dismal mental picture of what my enrollment at Stellenbosch might end up being like. Also, though they claim to be striving to be a bi-lingual university, the dominance of the Afrikaans language in the print materials of this institution really caused me to feel as though my ability to be fully informed was not a top priority.

Thus, simultaneously, I renewed my conversation with the gentleman at Pretoria to whom I refer above. In addition to him, everyone else at Pretoria proved unfailingly prompt, thorough, and friendly in helping to answer my questions and provide me assistance. I have been deeply impressed by the readiness evident throughout the University of Pretoria's administrative structure to provide for the needs of an English-speaking, distance based student. They provide me precisely the flexibility I need where residency is concerned. In addition to this, I have the benefits of studying under the supervision of a world-class scholar and leader and of being affiliated with a thelogy faculty whose alumni presently teach at institutions on 5 different continents. I trust that this is the best possible opportunity; so, I will proceed with joy, confidence and pride into my affiliation with the University of Pretoria.

By the way, I just received my first assignment from my supervisor: to read a key text on Practical Theology methodology and to write a 6,000 word essay on the topic. Here we go! I'm excited to be under way.

 

Thanks Dave.

 

Not having a go?

Peter, I am confused r.e. your comment, "At a groups of IT colleges wher I was national GM, we regarded all SA qualifications as having no value - a bit tought but it was board policy." This doesn't seem to jibe with what you've said in the past regarding Potchefstroom University in South Africa.

On 5-12-02, you wrote another poster, "The fact that a world renowned long established international accredited university [Potchefstrooom] which is respected in this forum is adversely criticised by you doesn't matter. ...I cannot find any other post that is so much in total disregard for the internal administration of a university - particularly one we respect."

Do you mean that you respect SA theological institutions, but not their IT programs? Do you mean that you respect SA institutions, but had to go along with board policy?

 

Craig,

In my opinion, everything is on the up and up with your doctoral program. Full speed ahead, my friend!

Dave

P.S. Do you plan to seek employment as a University professor when you get the PhD? Hadn't you already taught as an adjunct at a UC with the MA degree?

 

OK ...

Of course it is cool, as I am not having a go at you , just stating the position as it is here, which may not be a bad idea as many consider doing their PhD's through an Oz University.

I have extensive research data collected over the period 1999-2002, that is very relevant to current educational administration issues. There is abundant support for taking this further and there are questions that need answering. So it meets the inital issues that arise re one's thesis.

However, even though this has not been published or used towards another degree, it CANNOT form any part of my research/data for a PhD in education here. It can very definitely be referred to as unpublished work, but cannot be used otherwise - it all has to be done again, and that is not feasible. The best recommendation is that I should publish this in refereed journals, and maybe replicate that now for my PhD. However, as I no longer hold any interest for cleaning up messed up Post Y12 colleges who fail a Government Audit, this will not happen.

So last year I decided to do my pinacle degree in something non-utilitarian that I have a personal passion for - Local/Social History. At this stage I am completing my MA in this area and will do a leisurely PhD from later this year purely for the love of learning, and to offest the boredom of semi retirement.

Oh -, and by the way, it is cheaper than yours - it costs me nothing as PhD's costs are effectively paid by the Government to the university, my travel, research gathering, and secretarial costs are paid for/subsidised by my Uni [there is an private office if I need it], and I can get a travel grant for overseas seminars.

Maybe some should think of relocating here for their degrees - we are almost a State of the US

 

Hi:

Paul--Just dissertation. my course work was done at UC. But I think it is dissertation only even with only an MA.

Dave--Thanks. No--no professor job for me. I am too old. I am a adjunct for life. Ph.D is mainly to feel good about finishing something that I have so much invested in.

Peter--Go for it my friend--you deserve the title.