Guy with a fake degree lands job as Kansan publisher......

The Bears discusses this in their books. This was an attempt by the California legislature to put teeth into the approval process. However, no one took it seriously. For example, a degree from a state-approved school never got you into the state university system.

All of this was bled away when the CPPVE was killed off.

 

It was taken seriously by state agencies in hiring. It actually ended when the CPPVE was formed, not when it died. This was when jurisdiction by the California Department of Education ceased.

 

David is quite right. Jurisdiction by the Dept. of Education ceased in 1990 when California's three-tier system was eliminated. It was prior to this that the state senate was trying to push the approval-equivalent-to-accreditation notion (that the Dept. of Education didn't want to support). The elimination of this--and the creation of the CPPVE, occured at that point. I didn't realize the approval/accreditation issue died there; I thought it lived on until the CPPVE died. Mea culpa.

(This is recounted quite thoroughly first in BG 10 and then in subsequent editions.)

 

The State Dept of Education did support equivalent accreditation. Here is the nugget from my files. I have the actual state certificate scanned but could not attach due to size constraints. I'd be happy to email to any interested.


"In accordance with Subdivision (b) of California Education Code, Section 94310, this document verifies that the Superintendent of Public Instruction impaneled a qualified visiting committee and conducted comprehensive on-site qualitative review and assessment of the institution and all programs offered and therefore, grants FULL INSTITUTIONAL APPROVAL, as a California Degree-Granting Institution to: California Coast University, Santa Ana, CA

Full institutional approval pursuant to California Education Code 94310(b) means:

(1) The institution has facilities, financial resources, administrative capabilities, faculty, and other necessary educational expertise and resources to afford students, and require of students, the completion of a program of education which will prepare them for the attainment of a professional, technological, or educational objective, including, but not limited to, a degree;

(2) the curriculum is consistent in quality with curricula offered by appropriate established accredited institutions which are recognized the the United States Department of Education or the Committee of Bar Examiners for the State of California and issue the appropriate degree upon statisfactory completion of specific qualitative academic programs; and

(3) the course for which the degree is granted achieves its professed or claimed academic objective for higher education, with verifiable evidence of academic achievement comparable to that required of graduates of other recognized schools accredited by an appropriate accrediting commission recognized the United States Department of Education or the Committee of Bar Examiners for the State of California.

Signed: Bill Honig, Superintendent of Public Instruction and John H. Peterson, Director, Private Postsecondary Education Division, California State Department of Education, Sacramento, CA
No. 1110 Effective: August, 1982"

 

Re: Re: Re: Guy with a fake degree lands job as Kansan publisher......

You are arguing that if a person is ignorant of the facts then it is ok to defame an individual? ...I don't think so...

I'm not a licensed attorney but since you ask... If this went to trial, I would think the action would be based on the fact that the defendant made an inflamatory remark (admitted by the defendant as a "goat-getter") with the intention to ridicule the plaintiff by attaching an article which described the plaintiff's career achievements and education. The result of this remark defamed the plaintiff. Subsequently, the defendant admitted his remark was a "cheap shot".

Personally, I think the defendent is toast should the action be pursued. I certainly hope it's not. If I were Mr. Tisdail, I would clarify my remarks in such a way as to apologize to the aggrieved.
I think the comment was inappropriate and went beyond a discussion of the merits of State Approved vs Accreditation and instead entered into tort law.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Guy with a fake degree lands job as Kansan publisher......

A person could never use ignorance of a law to prove innocence. You could try, it just wouldn't work.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Guy with a fake degree lands job as Kansan publisher......

And even if the poster Tisdail made a mistake, I think enough factual information has been presented here for one to realize and admit the error along with a forum to communicate that. To not take that opportunity seems to me to be a reflection of malice further compounding the potential problems.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Guy with a fake degree lands job as Kansan publisher......

Kirkland, I really don't appreciate your lame attempts at misrepresenting what I say. You tell lies about what others have said just so you can then tear down your own lamely presented arguments. I guess I really shouldn't expect much better from someone that is so fond of degree mills but I have to expect better.

If you had bothered looking at the link you might have noticed (then again since you can't see any truth through your special view biased glasses, you probably wouldn't have noticed) that CCU degrees are illegal for use in Oregon. A common definition for a degree mill is an institution that sells illegal degrees. Therefore the statement that CCU is a degree mill could reasonably be proven true in court of law. What this would mean is that since the statement is true the libel case would be thrown out of court because the truth is a complete defense to libel.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Guy with a fake degree lands job as Kansan publisher......

Wow Bill, ... take a few deep breaths and pull that burr out of your knickers before it works its way up.

I thought my summation of your point was accurate and not lame at all. I am very familiar with the ODA site... and I don't think it is relevant to the issue.

Perhaps you should look at it more closely. CCU does not fit the ODAs definition of degree mill... for instance, they fully operate under government supervision. You will also find the ODA introduces their list of what's not legal in Oregon by saying some schools listed are legal in other States, require work, and that one should refer to the links they offer. So, even the National Test Pilot School is illegal in Oregon not because of quality, just because Oregon's law says degrees must be accredited by a US DOE recognized agency (or be given a special ODA approval e.g. SCUPS). If it is true that the ODA does not list degree mills, but only schools that are currently not legal for one reason or another (I'll admit that most on their list are questionable), then your point falls apart.

 

Please stop, I'm laughing so hard I'm about to wet my pants.
CCU. Fake, fake, fake, fake, fake, fake, fake.

 

interesting ... have heard of but hadn't seen the incontinent idiot defense until now.

 

Dr. Tisdail;

Just curious about your degrees. What are they and where are they from?

 

Ouch, now that really hurt.
How about we do this. We’ll write Mr. Phillips and tell him of my transgressions on a message board on the internet. We’ll cc The Newton Kansan. I’ll even help write the draft is you’d like. If Mr. Phillips believes my statements warrant a lawsuit, you will have proved him with a place to find the ammunition. Of course there could a possible downside. That would be that The Newton Kansan might be concerned that it wouldn’t look PC to have an editor claiming a degree from a non-accredited university. You know public pressure can be a terrible thing. I don’t know if you’d want that on your conscience if it were to cause him to loose his job.
I have a feeling that Mr. Phillips will make a great editor and that his CCU degree played little, if anything at all in his hiring. I think that’s probably true for everyone with a CCU degree.

BTW: life should be fun. You’re taking this thing much too seriously, IMHO.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Guy with a fake degree lands job as Kansan publisher......

You're intellectually dishonest in your arguments.

You pulled that junk about me claiming that he was "ignorant of the law" out of rear. It was no summation of any point that I made.

Why don't you go peddle your fraud someplace else.

 

Re: Re: Re: Guy with a fake degree lands job as Kansan publisher......

Mr. Huffman, please get your facts straight. My comment said nothing about ignorance of the law and you are incorrect in stating so. I said a person "ignorant of the facts" which just follows what you were claiming above in your statements about assumptions. I am not peddling anything. If you can't debate honestly you should stop posting.

 

But how do you know that person is "ignorant of the facts"? That person could have just as many facts as you, but come to a different conclusion. Isn’t that possible?

 

It's ironic that the individuals that whine the loudest about Degreeinfo being full of sharks are busy making dark threats about legal action unless one of our participants publicly apologizes and recants.

More theoretically, if a suit for defamation is brought, among other things, the person bringing the suit must prove that the allegedly defaming statement was false.

In this case, calling a university "fake" seems to be equivalent to calling it substandard. Hence, in order to make a defamation case work, the person bringing the suit would have the burden of having to prove that CCU in fact isn't substandard.

That might be a tough argument to make, especially considering that some definition of 'standard' would have to be established that made no reference to the accreditation that CCU has so far lacked.

 

The epitome of .. of ... something silly is Kirkland trying to tell me what I really meant and then arguing with me when he gets it completely wrong.

Perhaps I should try again?

I believe that most people that are at least familar with accreditation are going to call any unaccredited school a degree mill. This has nothing to do with ignorance. It has to do with the way it is. If you look up the definition of degree mill, you will find that it means a substandard school. How do schools prove that they are standard, by accreditation. If the school doesn't prove that they're standard then that is the schools problem and the alumni's problem that people are going to call their school a degree mill.

Now I'm personally interested in knowing what I really meant and since Kirkland's job is apparently to tell me what I really meant, I'm looking forward to Kirkland's next post.

 

Yes, different conclusions can be reached from the same set of facts; however in this circumstance I believe there has been enough factual evidence presented to indicate CA state approved schools are not fake as was charged. Other than some histrionics, I've not see any facts to support the charge. So, to continue making these unsupported claims is in my opinion, ignorant of the facts.

There may be differences of opinion and no doubt comparisons of the different educational systems, fine. But you were challenged when you went so far as to charge a third-party individual with fraud "fake degree" for holding a CA state approved degree as well as indicating that his employer shouldn't find out, as if he had done something illegal. You may believe you have some moral imperative or maybe you thought it was fun but I believe that kind of behavior is hurtful and could be actionable. I encourage you to contact the man to let him know what you have done.

 

I offered to help you draft a letter. That isn't good enough? Some how I'm pretty sure Mr. Phillips could care less about anything I've written. My guess is he's dealt with this in his own mind and is comfortable with his decision to use CCU in his resume. Could in the right mood, he might even agree to the term “fake”. Who knows?