I"m assuming that someone out there wants to make some cash by offering bogus degrees. Here's an organization that will offer you a college degree for life experience. http://www.bythelead.com/degrees/ This is another of those fake degree consulting agencies that looks at your resume and awards a degree based on past competencies. So since I have been taking the garbage out to the curb twice a week for the past 11 years, does that entitle me to a Doctor of Garbology degree?
Maybe I could get my doctorate in human procrastination. That would be PHD. In Latin - Procrastinatus Humanitas Doctorium. I didn't say the degree had a language requirement.
Devil's Advocate! I do not support and never have supported so-called 'degree mills'. However, if an individual can demonstrate that s/he has acquired all the skills, levels of competence, knowledge, etc, etc that we attribute to the award of a degree (bachelor's, master's or doctorate) why can there not be a form of assessment and evaluation to prove these things and the person then receives the degree with no additional work? After all, this process occurs in many countries where a person can gain a PhD for publioshed works judged to be of doctoral degree standard. Why can the same process not apply to lower degree levels? 'telfax'
DegreeInfologist??? With my myriad posts surely I deserve a Chancellorate in DegreeInfology. Russell A. Morris, Ch.D.
Re: Devil's Advocate! Some of the UK universities offer doctorate degrees for previously published works. I would support this method of competency based assessment. However, I do not support any system that awards degrees based on work experience. If that was the case, then everyone would be a candidate for a doctorate.
Re: Devil's Advocate! This could be possible IF the US had a type of four year degree that was purely vocational in nature (ie no general education requirements). Let's say I was a master electrician working with some union for 15 years. Let us also say there were services that would assess my experience and (if need be) test me with a battery of written and applied tests based on electrical theory, safety, codes, and laws. Why couldn't I be granted a BOS (Bachelor of Occupational Studies) in electrical technology. Some would say that schools already have degrees similar to this (BAS's for example), however, even these "vocational" degrees have a limited amount of general education. I think this would be rather redundant on a resume, however. Considering the applicant has 15 years of electrical experience, one would think he is already pretty fluent on the subjects covered in a BOS in electrical technology. You could say you had a Bachelors degree, so, I guess there are some advantages to a system like this. Best Regards, Bill
Re: Devil's Advocate! These things already exist, don't they? Western Governors University is an attempt to create a whole new assessment-based DL university from the ground up. The traditional University of London external programme model, also followed by Heriot Watt's MBA, involves passing a set of examinations without formal instruction. Thomas Edison, Excelsior and Charter Oak make it possible to rack up huge numbers of credits by examination. And a great many universities all around the world give students the opportunity to challenge a limited number of courses (or modules or whatever), short of a complete degree. I think that the point is that the legitimate programs make their students demonstrate a grasp of the necessary material. They test all of the required subjects within a degree program, and require students to demonstrate all of the expected skills and competencies. In actual practice I doubt that's always the case, since things like laboratory technique and practical skills experiences might be shortchanged and one occasionally hears horror stories about exams passed with little or no study or prior exposure to the subject. But while the real-life execution might not always be all that one might desire, I think that the basic principle is certainly sound. That is rather different than the common "degree-mill" practice of granting a degree based simply on the submission of a resume. A student claims to have worked several years as a manager somewhere, so a school sells the student an MBA based on "life experience", for a suitable fee of course. There's no attempt made to assess the student's actual grasp of the material normally taught in MBA programs.
Re: Devil's Advocate! While I also think that the idea of life experience degrees should not be dismissed 'just like that', there is need to be cautious. A strong regulatory regime would need to be in place because the system is easily amenable to abuse. Some experience may be 'expired' knowledge, to wit someone who has been using the same technology for the last 30 years. In any case, I wouldn't want people to start talking about life experience degrees and DL degrees in the same breath. Opherus
Re: Devil's Advocate! Indeed. It already exists in many forms. Hundreds of schools offer the portfolio option to assess life experience for credit. There are hundreds (thousands?) of examinations available to have one's college-level knowledge assessed. Degrees are based upon credits earned and aggregated. It seems reasonable that if life experience credit--or other forms of assessing prior knowledge/skills--be a part of that process it, too, should be on a credit-by-credit basis. Degrees aren't earned in one piece, not even those based upon learning agreements. Nor should they be awarded in one piece based upon prior learning. Each degree requirement should be assessed in whatever manner required, with all being passed to earn the degree. We're now seeing more emphasis placed on defining and measuring competencies instead of "seat time" spent. (See Western Governors University.) The Ph.D.-by-published-works is a very narrow and barely available option, however. A few schools seem willing to do it, but often for those connected with those schools. Also, the process isn't based entirely on previous work. Normally, the candidate must "string together" the previous publications into a comprehensive body of work. This, as one can imagine, might require quite a bit of new writing, research, etc. It is not a degree based only on what one has already done.
Re: Devil's Advocate! telfax seems to be a silly troll. He pops into a thread makes an inane comment and disappears. I've never see him answer a question nor elaborate on a point nor clarify his meaning when asked. Listen telfax, it doesn't bother me when someone disagrees with me. I think that goes for the just about everyone here. If you want to discuss an idea then it really requires some dialogue. What you seem to do instead is to just troll for reactions.
I would consider experience based credits for degrees with the greatest of suspicion, not difficult to see why with degree mills, but hardly much more difficult with real universities. The fact is that cvs are wide open to fraud and exaggeration and vagueness. A whole industry exists to check fraud on employees' cvs. The second proven fact is that 'experience' is also wide open to interpretation. A degree is an attestation of fitness, attested by rigorous examination of the attestee by rigorously selected attestors. It is not self attested by the student. There is absolutely no comparison between a post-graduate degree (PhD or Doctor of Science) that is awarded on the basis of academic work and the 'experience portfolios' that is being discussed here. The PhD or DSc work to be judged by professorial faculty (from within the discipline and from external professors from other universities) is based on refereed journal articles (refereed by peer groups in the discipline) and cited scientific published work (again refereed by peers). It usually encompasses academic work recgonised by the profession. It is not a portfolio of vacation jobs. The awarding panel contain the most senior professors and is subject to strict audit. Harvard, Cambridge, Oxford have used this process for distinguished alumni (and a couple of Nobel prize winners) to my certain knowledge. Only rigorous exams are safer than the above process (you have to be extremely well known in your field even to be considered for the process). When experience portfolios are combined with soft exam regimes (as they often are) they threaten the academic integrity of all degrees, especially in DL. Don't let it slide in the side door.
telfax is not alone.DL was not an issue bevore 20 years,and ivy-schools were not the first recognising the importance of DL,e-learning,prior learning and work experience.Perhaps in 5-10 years they will be all schools having mainly faculty from PWU.Who knows? Perhaps is the accreditation not in state monopoly in 5 years. The matter is not DL.We must ask what new forms of learning will be relevant in the future.I see here so many people with so much conservative mentality that I must think they are students of residencial universities. Excuse me for my bad english..But I could not resist the feeling to contribute
I think there are too many obstacles to experience based degrees. There is a deference between BA or BS experience or vocational degree and Ph.D. degree and the discipline in which the degree is. In some cases employers will hire employees with equivalent experience to a degree, they will say B.Sc. or equivalent experience. Education is an industry – University is a business that needs to educate but also make $$$$$. If there will be a way to make $$$$$$$$$ of experience assessment – such as portfolio assessment today Then there is a better chance for this kind of degrees to be awarded. High school diploma from properly accredited school is regarded better than GED. So for example someone with B.Sc. in Electronics or Electronics Practical Engineer.( Practical engineer will be some one who performed duties of Electronics engineer for 4 years) will be the same. In England for example a member of IEE is a designation well respected ( MIEE) and a person can be registered as Chartered Engineer. One of the tracks to becoming IEE member (MIEE) is accredited 4 year degree (honours), or alternative documented experience with specific requirements for number of years and what responsibilities during this years. So a person without a B.Sc. degree but with sufficient experience can be an Engineer. IEE has many paths that can lead to this designation, combination of academic, training on job, training by vendors, vocational training and work experience or challenge examinations for example British Computer society tests.. So when someone is a ChEng – Chartered Engineer or IEE Member (not the same as IEEE in US) The prospective employer gets a verified valid licenses professional. A person who is ChEng is regarded higher than a person who is B.Sc. degreed only. Another example would be if VN could become RN after working as LVN for 4 years based on her experience or take classes and pass tests. Mikhail
