Ed.S. degree for business purposes

But in that moment of perceived triumph it sometimes feels good…. Until it doesn’t.

 

Forgive my exasperation My lack of critical thinking is astounding.

 

Most of that stuff is unrelated to education and has more to do with human resources and research grants. If a school is not applying for research grants, as stated in the article, most of those additional costs don't apply. It is true that the federal government requires colleges and universities to be accredited by recognized accreditation organizations to qualify for Title IV funding (financial aid), but those accreditors are setting the standards schools have to meet.

 

Have your goals from your original post been achieved? It seems you were originally looking for general opinion, which you appear to have received, and this has modified to each camp trying to convince the other. Overall, where are you with the idea of how the Ed.S will meet your goals?

 

I don't know why it's hard to comprehend that a survey is not an authoritative piece of legislation or regulatory code. When filling out a survey, you follow the rules of the survey.

Just because a Hispanic person, who is mixed with Native American and European, can't select Native American doesn't mean they are not part Native American. The stipulations of government surveys are usually that you need to be a member of a federally recognized Native American tribe. So, just because a Hispanic person is forced to choose only White or "some other race" doesn't mean that it is an accurate reflection of reality. The survey is simply flawed. The Census Bureau has acknowledged that its race and ethnicity questions are flawed.

If state governments say that the Ed.S is a degree, then it's a degree. You don't get your teaching, psychology, principal, counseling, or educational diagnostician licenses and certifications from the federal government. You get them from states and territories.

 

Where did the various state authorities (to which you look up to) articulate the position that there is an intermediate degree (between a Master's and a Doctorate), a post-Master's degree, not just in name, but as an officially recognized qualification on par with a Master's degree and a Doctor's degree?

 

Google the below.

"Ed.S degree" site:.gov

You'll see that many states plus Washington D.C. call the Ed.S a degree. It's a specialist degree. The kind of degree it is is in the name of the degree.

Are you not from the U.S.? It seems like certain things are not translating because of cultural differences. When you offer a new degree, it has to be approved by your accreditor. In some states, the new program also has to be approved by your state's higher education board. They're not going to approve a degree that doesn't fit the definition of the degree. For example, schools have had proposed doctoral programs disapproved because they weren't considered to be doctoral-level.

Take a look at this recognized accreditor's website. Educational specialist is its own category.

https://sacscoc.org/institutions/?institution_name=houston&state=TX&results_per_page=25&curpage=1&institution=0011N00001h9E4eQAE&status=Accredited,Candidate

SACSCOC's official policy says that, if an institution's highest degree is a master's, it is Level III. If its highest degree is master's and Ed.S, it's Level IV. There are fewer hurdles to jump when you're Level IV seeking to go to Level V (awarding a doctorate).

sacscoc
https://sacscoc.org › 2019/08PDF
Substantive Change Policy and Procedures

 

The Higher Learning Commission is another recognized accreditor. Their 2024 guide has specialist degree as its own category.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://download.hlcommission.org/InstitutionalUpdateGuide_PRC.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiYmeLLt-WEAxWx98kDHcDxDF0QFnoECBsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3clCJVW4nxFJPeDAEyP3ij

 

I am not "looking up to" the states. The U.S. Department of Education makes it known that they do not regulate this area.

"To ensure a basic level of quality, the practice of accreditation arose in the United States as a means of conducting non-governmental, peer evaluation of educational institutions and programs. Private educational associations of regional or national scope have adopted criteria reflecting the qualities of a sound educational program and have developed procedures for evaluating institutions or programs to determine whether they are operating at basic levels of quality.

The U.S. Department of Education does not accredit institutions or programs. Accreditation is done by independent accrediting agencies; however, the Department maintains a list of accrediting agencies and accrediting bodies that it recognizes. You can find these lists of agencies on the following website:"

https://www.ed.gov/answers/

"
In the United States, the competent authorities for recognizing previous education and qualifications include entities such as the following:

• Education Institutions (for those seeking to study)
• Employers (for those seeking employment)
• State-Level Licensing Authorities (for those seeking professional licensure)
• Federal Immigration Authorities (for those seeking to obtain/change visa status)

In some instances, the entities mentioned above will evaluate foreign credentials themselves. However, in most instances, they will request that you obtain a credential evaluation to determine how one’s non-U.S. credentials compare with U.S. credentials. Such evaluations are carried out by private, non-governmental entities for a fee.

Note: The U.S. Department of Education does not evaluate foreign qualifications or degrees. Please do not submit evaluation requests or related documentation to the Department."

https://sites.ed.gov/international/recognition-of-foreign-qualifications/

 

"Education is primarily a State and local responsibility in the United States. It is States and communities, as well as public and private organizations of all kinds, that establish schools and colleges, develop curricula, and determine requirements for enrollment and graduation. The structure of education finance in America reflects this predominant State and local role."

https://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/fed/role.html

 

Sanantone,

I am not from the U.S. I am a Polish-Canadian, currently living in Poland. Your research shows that there is a specialist degree that goes through the accreditatation process. But this still doesn't quite address what I am after. Neverthless, thank you for the display of more relevant links. We knew that the EdS is commonly referrred to as a degree (the naming aspect). It also appears to have a category of its own in some places.

I might get back to this topic once I get more information from sources that can shed more light. I need to send some inquiries. The U.S. system really suffers from the lack of a qualifications framework. I would truly like to know whether it's a certiifcate, a degree, or both. We have a total mess here in terms of sources. As you know, many universities specifically refer to it as a Post-Master's Certificate without even mentiong that it's a degree....messy for anyone who wants to know the award level.

 

A qualifications framework is super important. Otherwise, you don't even know whether you've completed a certificate or a degree award! That's crazy. You Americans are crazy

 

Irrelevant. What matters is how it resonates with everybody else. And that was the original purpose of this thread.

 

This is a note (not incredibly important in and of itself) that nicely summarizes the confusing situation from an outsider's perspective looking at this issue. What this illustrates is that the EdS standing (at least) warranted a special note, which goes against the "this is totally trivial" vibe, not a single person cares about it. Who would even bother to talk about the difference between a degree and a certificate, if you can get a raise based on the credential? Well, I care about the qualification that I receive into my hands. Maybe I'm the only person. But I tend to think that in the world of education, it matters whether what you have received is officially characterized as a certificate award, a diploma, a degree and what specific level of education you have attained in the process of study. Even if IPEDS is not finally authoritative, the characterization shows that the claim "it is ludicruous to characterize this as anything other than a degree" isn't sensible. The issue is not settled. Perhaps, it won't be settled.

Performance Measure Explanatory Notes - Note 6:

"Note that although the Education Specialist degree is a distinct degree type, it is categorized by IPEDS as a “postmaster’s certificate.” Boise State awarded the first Ed.S. degrees in 2015-16." Link: https://boardofed.idaho.gov/meetings/board/archive/2022/1019-2022/07WORKSESSION.pdf

How is IPEDS Used?

IPEDS provides basic data needed to describe — and analyze trends in — postsecondary education in the United States, in terms of the numbers of students enrolled, staff employed, dollars expended, and degrees earned. Congress, federal agencies, state governments, education providers, professional associations, private businesses, media, students and parents, and others rely on IPEDS data for this basic information on postsecondary institutions.

It's not totally unreasonable to rely on their characterization of postsecondary credentials, even if they are not the final authority. I know that many global evaluators use the IPEDS. I've even seen it with Polish NAWA in terms of the go-to sources for information on American higher education.

 

Should people care from the standpoint of practical benefits of the EdS for teachers in the United States? No, they should not. Should people care from the perspective of giving due diligence to what something can realistically be categorized as within a post-secondary education system? I’d say so. Of course, we know that frequently they don’t. But I don’t see why that should be seen as a virtue. In the same way, we don’t view ignorant HR personnel as desirable. I am a high school teacher in another country, so I don’t have a stake in this debate. In fact, I became qualified through a postgraduate certificate, not a degree, so I really have no reason to criticize the EdS itself, whether it’s a degree or not.

But there is this thing that strikes me as unwise. On this board, there is an all too common attachment to literalistic renderings of various qualification titles. It says, ‘degree’, so it must be categorized and recognized as such. It says, “Doctor of Business Administration", so it must mean exactly what the DBA in some other country means, usually the U.S. serving as the benchmark. If not, the qualification must be fraudulent and its very existence represents deceptive practice. I can understand this urge, because I’ve been guilty of it myself. But sometimes, the literalistic rendering goes along with the inability to even attempt to place a qualification within a larger context of a specific higher education system. The EdS is not a straightforward qualification to interpret in the absence of a qualifications framework in the United States. But the idea that the mere reference to ‘degree’ settles all debates strikes me as a manifestation of this literalistic approach.

 

Associate's degrees are widespread across nearly all disciplines. The same is true for bachelor's, master's, and doctoral degrees.

Where are all the specialist degrees? They're nearly non-existent, limited to one discipline and a few tangent areas.

This is the difference between actually thinking about something and merely relying on someone's (or something's) authority to tell you.

GM once offered the Cadillac Cimarron. They called it a Cadillac. Everywhere you looked, it was listed as a Cadillac. But it was really just a re-badged Chevy Cavalier with some modest styling upgrades. It was a scandal. If you relied on authority, you thought you were getting a Cadillac. But if you looked under the hood, you were buying a Chevy. Thus, at the dealership, it was a Cadillac. In the real word, it was a Chevy.

Look under the hood instead of merely relying on what "authorities" are saying. In the field of education, the EdS is a degree. In the rest of the real world, it is not.