a new program in california http://www.capradio.org/articles/2018/10/25/never-finished-that-college-degree-new-california-state-university-online-program-might-help/
I know I’m biased, but how are any of these “completion programs” more flexible or convenient than any of the big 3? Unless you can test out of courses without actually going thru the course, they are not. The only advantage might be graduating with a more recognizable name on your diploma, I understand that there is some value gained with the reputation of the institution you graduate from. But in the end, your time saved (and possibly dollars saved) makes the Big 3 an automatic. If you have a bunch of credits that don’t amount to a degree that have been collecting dust, the Big 3 get you there quickest. Do people outside of these forums really not know about the Big 3? A couple of google searches related to degree completion get you to the Big 3 pretty quickly. Or are they the best kept secret in the world of online/distance/degree completion? I find it hard to believe that I figured out how to finish and others potentially haven’t.
There are a few things that come to mind in response to your post. The first is, good point by you! After that, however, we start to think about the fact that everyone's preferences and needs vary and expecting everyone to feel the same way you do is a lost cause. If I live in California (or any other place that has a degree completion program) then I might prefer to get a CSU degree. Some people actually prefer to take courses one or two at a time rather than testing out of everything (for example). Plus, a lot of people are not really paying for their degrees. If your company is paying the bill then you might not care if TESU (for example) costs a little less. As to your question about "Do people know about the Big 3?" I'd say that the answer is no, not in the way you mean. To them COSC is just another state college and maybe they take a peek and say "Wow, all those different ways to earn credits...too confusing...I'd rather just take the courses." But mostly I think the Big 3 are a bit of a secret.
Now that I'm living in the US, my Canadian credentials are viewed with suspicion. I've discussed with several employers the possibility of completing my Master of Social Work (MSW) online through the University of North Dakota and gotten interesting responses. They are far more supportive of candidates going to local schools, even though the programs are all Council on Social Work Accreditation (CSWE) accredited and the licensure is the same no matter which CSWE school you graduate from. So I think there is a benefit to being a California resident and being able to get a degree with California in it. Additionally, if you attended one of these schools in the past, you could more easily transfer credits (since they'd already be on file and what-not.)
I would look closely at what Kizmet wrote. There can be more value in getting a degree from a place other than the Big 3. The quickest or cheapest route may not be the best. Your degree should challenge you and prepare you well for the future, whether leading to grad school or a career.
A senior member of my organization has an undergraduate from one of them, but I never actually thought to look into it.
During my research on the school, I found degreeinfo.com and another forum that talked about the other popular degree completion schools. Knowing that I care about aesthetics, I wish I had done research on the diploma appearance before enrolling in my current school; it is definitely not as fancy as I would have liked it to be, in comparison to other schools. Yeah yeah, I know it shouldn't matter, but it does. I like to keep a visual reference of my personal accomplishments, to remind me to keep pushing forward and not waste MORE years.
We're going down a road with this thread that we've gone down thousands of times before, but it's still worth it to revisit the question when new options arise in the DL universe. You make some good points, but I think you're missing the mark by missing the market. Those looking for "degree completion" are a different breed than the typical college student. We're usually talking about people who've had to stop/start due to life circumstances, people who already have knowledge and experience and just want a formal way of demonstrating it and people who have a bigger plan where the undergrad degree is just a step along the way that needs to be cleared up first. The Big Three aren't for everyone, we all know that, but they are for a whole bunch of people who would be best served by them and should really seriously consider the significant monetary and opportunity costs of passing them up.
You do make a good point, and I think I did kind of miss the mark there. If someone has gone through multiple schools and not been successful or had to leave due to various reasons, which may be beyond their control, sometimes it is better to finish and have some degree, rather than none. Starting over can be difficult and costly, as some schools require residencies of one to two years or certain prerequisities. (A residency can be defined as a required number of courses that need to be taken at the school, including entirely online.) I think most schools accept up to two years worth of transfer credits for undergraduate. If you have nearly 3.5 years of credits, why start over somewhere where you need to do an additional 1.5 years that you already have satisfied? I would certainly try, in those cases, to revisit previous schools to see if completing the degree a student was doing there is still possible, but there may be a very good reason why that it may not be. I think degree completion under those circumstances is a time when a student certainly would want to consider the Big Three. If they are earlier in their academic careers, I would stand by my previous remarks.
Maybe fancy wasn't my best choice of words; I'm just nit picky. I'm currently with Excelsior College. On Excelsior's current diplomas, the text just above the seal is offset to the right, with a large dead-space to the left, where a standard gold foil seal previously existed on past versions. It bothers me that the mentioned text is not centered and it probably shouldn't, but it does. It's odd, because they clearly redesigned it, changing fonts and the school's name placement, but they didn't bother to center the Witness text. Objectively speaking, they aren't too bad. Here are examples from Google Images; the top image is the current template (although I have seen them in vertical orientation as well) and the bottom is an older variant:
I agree. I finished my associate's degree in 2012, but due to work and family life (and indecision on degree focus) I didn't start my bachelor's until about 2017. However, I've been working in my field of study for over a decade, so I'm pursuing my bachelor's degree for the sake of future employment potential within my field, to sooner start a master's degree in a another field I'm passionate about, and to set an example for my children to follow. Aside from the general education classes, I'm not learning much from the core classes, because the material covers stuff that I've been doing for a very long time. It's more like validation of knowledge, but I still learn new things everyday. Switching to Excelsior College shaved about years off of the time it would have taken me to complete a bachelor's at my previous school (starting from 60-70 credits), in a topic area I am already well-versed in due to working directly in that field.
My Excelsior AA diploma is gorgeous. My TESU BA diploma is just a bunch of black text. The only thing I really like about the TESU diploma is that it says "Bachelor" instead of "Associate" on it
This surprises me! Of the 1,000s of people I’ve met in my professional and personal life, all across the country, I’ve never met anyone with a degree from Excelsior (EC). Nor has EC ever come up in conversation, not even with the people I’ve interacted with from upstate NY. Even the hadful of people I know who reside in Albany, it’s never come up. Full disclosure, I’ve never brought up the topic of EC. I do wonder how the conversation with someone from Albany would go. Would the response from a local be negative or positive, I have no clue? I think there are a few hundred employees, give or take, in Albany so I’m sure locally most know someone who works there. I wonder if EC is considered less reputable to upstaters. I did work with a guy once from NJ who went to Rutgers. I asked him if he knew of Thomas Edison State University (College at the time), and his response was “Yeah, that’s were you go if you didn’t get accepted anywhere and had to go to work” I think for the most part, I’m ok with the general public not knowing about EC. No news is good news, especially if you consider that the majority of the press you find about EC is related to the challenges of the nursing school.
I agree, everyone has their own particular needs to address. My tone, which isn’t easy to convey in a forum thread, wasn’t that my view (the Big 3 route) of obtaining an undergraduate degree is the only way or best way. Thanks for checking me here. A few things I do feel strongly about though that I would like to reinforce: The average amount of time taken to complete an undergraduate degree is 6 years: https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=569 Average Student loan debt is pushing $40k: https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2018/06/13/student-loan-debt-statistics-2018/#6b045b077310 Most of us have met someone who started college but for some reason had to drop out / stop going So many jobs require an undergraduate degree, in any discipline Students are taking online undergraduate courses or physically going to night school in an 8 to 16 week format that will take an extended period of time to complete a degree There are plenty of stories of people who “only have 1 or 2 courses left to complete their degree but never got around to finishing” or “the college changed the degree requirements half way thru my program so I left” or “in my junior year I decided that I didn’t want to work in the field I was preparing for so I stopped going because it was too late to start over” or (my favorite excuse) “I got into a disagreement with a professor who failed me and I refuse to retake my last course”. I find these common excuses I’ve heard over the years to be complete BS. The Big 3 easily address and most likely solve the vast majority of these problem / roadblocks. I am confident that the Big 3 are tuff to compete with here. And I can personally attest to the fact that “If I was able to figure it out, most people should be able to”. No offense to myself, but if I was able to figure out that with a library card, instacert subscription, and a local community college testing center a degree could be completed quickly.... well let’s just say it’s not rocket science. I did not have much academic success prior to Excelsior College. Jr High and High School were complete disasters. I passed only 9 of the 20 community college courses I enrolled in, mostly “Cs”. I managed to pass 3 courses from 4 year schools, night classes. I probably couldn’t even spell “Dean’s List” at this point. I don’t bring these examples up to self deprecate, nor am I fishing for applause. My point is that In my personal situation, I was able to identify that a little planning, a semi motivated attitude, and persistence & perseverance at times (it took me 3 tries to get a C in EC’s Foundations of Gerentology, my final 3 upper level credits to complete the requirements of the degree) are all that is needed to accomplish the goal. Most of the other avenues seem to be way over complicated, time consuming, and expensive compared to the Big 3. The Big 3 approach might not be the answer for everyone, but I have to believe that it’s being way more under utilized than it should.
I agree with your last point. Clearly there are thousands of people who, just as you said, are only a few credits from earning a degree. However, I think that the fundamental difference between them and you is not that you know about the Big 3 and they do not. More fundamental is the fact that you were motivated to finish and they (largely) are not. While the Big 3 may not be household names, they are hardly a secret. A couple of hours in front of google is all it takes. Or, half a second on DI.
