How not to upset your PhD Supervisor

Here's how to fix the Barth fight problem. Just say, "oh, THAT Karl Barth." There were two of em, after all. Honest!
'Scuse me while I tip the cow.

 

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More great insight, thanks.

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A supervisor's view

A few observations as a PhD supervisor (11 successful - 4 failed or gave up) that might help.

Annoying factors:

Lack of preparation for a session. Too vague responses.
No evidence that comments from previous meeting were acted upon.
Continuing to pursue diversions/dead-ends despite several friendly critiques.
Linking inappropriate data to assertions not supported by the quoted data ( a complete disaster in the case of one student who insisted that if the data collected were correct then his associated conclusions were correct, though they were not related).
Ignorance of basic statistical or methodlogical concepts.
Expecting the supervisor to read near illegible scribbles (spelling or grammar should never be an issue, and supervisors should be bilingual in English and American!)
Unwillingness to explain exceptions to his/her argument.
Evidence of unfamiliarity with the literature related to the subject (despite the literature review being Chapter One of any thesis).
Being late/absent for appointments without warning.
Expecting the supervisor to rewrite sections for them.

Joys of supervision:
A student proposing to challenge every sacred cow in the supervisor's academic record. A counter thesis to the supervisor's own PhD
Leading the supervisor into new territory, new perspectives and doubts about what was believed up to then.
Diligent searching for work missed, not read, by supervisor.
Observing someone growing to know more about the subject than the supervisor has had time to do himself/herself.
Letting the supervisor abandon preconceived notions gently from overwhelming evidence and not uncriticqal quotes or assertions from known rivals.
Watching them graduate PhD or writing the letter stating they have.
A thankyou note for the role you played, albeit in the background.

 

Re: A supervisor's view

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Thanks for these helpful observations! My supervisor is doing five candidates at once, writing his own papers, and is only working part time. Do you really like your people charging your sacred cows? Suppose it would be the same re religious problems as well? I grow more convinced that I was a buffoon even to be concerned...Oh well, first time you make a mistake is the hardest I suppose!

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Having found this all very interesting, I have turned it round and started a new thread "A hundred ways to alienate your student – a non-primer for tutors, advisors and dissertation supervisors"

Lurking tutors, advisors and dissertation supervisors, please read and comment!

 

Double Dose

At present, I am working with two different supervisors at once--one for my MTh dissertation in Applied Theology at Spurgeon's College in London, the other for my DTh in Practical Theology at the University of Stellenbosch in South Africa. I am about 1/2 done with the MTh disseration. My supervisor is the director of the MTh program, and has provided me first-rate supervision. His standards have been high, and he has really tested the content of my dissertation. However, this has been to my benefit, because I can be confident that my final product will be "up to snuff." In addition, his constant and considerate, critical and constructive interaction is helping me to be refined as a scholar. I have known my supervisor for about 4 years, and esteem him as an outstanding person.

At the same time, I have made application to the DTh at Stellenbosch, and have been in dialogue with my future supervisor there, the head of the department of Practical Theology, for several months. I submitted my proposal to him in May, and he wrote back with very helpful suggestions for improvement. Since then, my proposal has circulated throughout the department and, to my delight, has been approved with a number of suggestions. My supervisor there has continued to be a reliable and helpful point of contact throughout this process. In September, my proposal will go before the research committee for final approval. I look forward to working with my supervisor there throughout the years to come. He is a leading figure in theological and ecclesiastical research recognized throughout South Africa, the continent of Africa, and the international community. I will be meeting him face-to-face for the first time at a conference in Chicago in October, where he will be one of the keynote speakers.

So, I consider myself to be exceedingly blessed where supervisors are concerned. These individuals are helping me not only to grow in scholarship, but to be sharpened and shaped as a man.

Cory Seibel

 

Sounds great Cory.

I think my success will increase as my pride decreases!

Hope your supervisors read this forum ,

 

It sounds as if Stellenbosch doctorates in theology are made in Heaven!

Just as a matter of interest, what is the link between Spurgeon College and the University of Wales? Is it a University of Wales MTh?

 

Spurgeon's and Wales

Spurgeon's College enjoys an "affiliate" relationship with the University of Wales (other theological institutions possessing this relationship to the U of Wales include the Evangelical Theological College of Wales, Oxford Centre for Mission Studies, International Baptist Theological Seminary, Prague, and Birmingham Bible Institute), whereby all degrees offered through Spurgeon's are "validated". In other words, the degree is actually granted by the University of Wales. On a periodic basis, external examiners from the University come around to review the work that has been submitted by Spurgeon's students. They assess whether the work has been graded at a standard consistent with the standards of the university, and possess the authority to raise or lower grades as they see fit. All degree requirements (e.g., number and length of essays, dissertation length, duration of enrollment, etc.) are dictated by the academic standards of the University. So, I complete the degree under the supervision of Spurgeon's professors, and ultimately am granted the MTh from the University of Wales.

Cory Seibel

 

Too much information?

mgspillane,

I just noticed that you identify one of your locations as Birmingham. This being so, I imagine that you are plenty familiar with the whole concept of validation. My apologies if, in responding, I have answered in greater length than necessary!

Cory Seibel

 

Re: Spurgeon's and Wales

 

You know, I have always heard that there were two people that you should never upset - they guy who writes out your paycheck and they guy who serves your food. I guess you have given us another person to place in this list....

ha
clint

 

Re: Re: How not to upset your PhD Supervisor

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Yes, this is a third. My condition may not be unusual for one of my age. At 13 I knew everything. From 22-60 I did not. Now at 62, I've regained my omniscience. Unfortunately, my Super has not recognized that attribute yet in me


How ya doing Clint?

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So what!

Any supervisor worth his/her salt will accept any criticism hurled at him/her. Likewise, a student who is given a hard time by his/her supervisor (of course there are the one off extremes!) deserves it! This is waht doing a doctorate is about! It is a struglle! If it isn't, then it isn't worth doing. I've expressed this analogy before. Doing ANY education degree is about being like a top athlete who has to push him/herself beyond the limit s/he thinks s/he can reach! This is where I find simp,y gaining credits for passing an assessment quite utilitarian. Mass education has produced a utilitarian system of assessment that has lost sight of what 'struggling to understand and comprehend' really means! I see young graduates day in and day out who have flown through allthweir courses, got credit for having having this, that and the other and they are still as 'thick as two short planks' - that is, they don't have any 'understanding'.

'telfax'

 

Re: Re: Spurgeon's and Wales

 

Re: So what!

: This is where I find simp,y gaining credits for passing an assessment quite utilitarian. Mass education has produced a utilitarian system of assessment that has lost sight of what 'struggling to understand and comprehend' really means! I see young graduates day in and day out who have flown through allthweir courses, got credit for having having this, that and the other and they are still as 'thick as two short planks' - that is, they don't have any 'understanding'.

MGS *** This is also true. On the other hand it is the fees paid by these students that helps reduce the unit cost of courses, particularly at regional institutions. This enables many of those who will 'get it,' but can't afford an elite school, to raise their head above the parapet and get the true education they deserve. So long as those who didn't 'get it' could graduate with straight "C"s, no great harm was done, for their GPA (or pass degree) would tell the tale. However we now have a society which requires all winners and no losers and even those who don't 'get it' now demand "A"s. Weak-kneed instructors, often under pressure from college administrators, recruiters, lawyers and acountants, are complying rather than resisting, thereby undermining the whole system. Which leads us on to permitted plaigiarism....

 

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As the initiator of this thread I would like to thank all who have made general remarks. These have , in general, been excellent.

But in regard to my situation in particular, I would like to state that I now assume responsibilty for any miscommuniation between my Super and myself and attribute that to the impulsivity which frequently possesses me. I think my first chap while not in ideation much questionable , was at least in format the victim of this impulsivity, and I think my discussion of Barth while not incorrect theologically might have been immodest in tone or incomplete in exposition . As I think many here will agree, in presenting the results of research it is also important how you say it. Perhaps the student should not impulsively take it that that criticism cannot be for contructive purposes. I think "spoiled" also represents well my earlier response!

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Re: Re: Re: How not to upset your PhD Supervisor

Hey Bill,

As you mention in a later post, it really matters how you say things, more than what you say. At least in some occasions.
I remember a paper that I wrote on "Marriage, Divorce and Remarriage" (please - I am relating history, not trying to discuss this here.....). My instructor wrote more in critique on my paper than the paper had in argument itself. He tore it up, totally disagreeing with my conclusions (and most everything else about it). I then received an A+. Though he despised the content, he appreciated the effort and the way it was argued, etc.

Anyway, back to how I've been doing... Well, since we moved to Estonia in June, I have been busy. We are getting residence visas this next week, and they are good for 2 years. So we are excited there.
But I have been so busy getting set up and starting everything here that I haven't been able to keep up with degreeinfo the way I like. But I come and check in every day or so. Here lately, it seems that things are slowing down a little and I can become more regular again. I hope so.
on the education front, I start my MA studies (Christian Ministry) with Abilene Christian Univ in January, and plan to also start MA studies in English with UNIZUL then. I wrote to Dr. Hooper in the English Dept at Unizul a week or so ago, but haven't heard anything from her. But this is a busy time for her, and we have been corresponding for awhile..

Anyway, probably more than you were wanting, but there it is.
later,
clint

 

Clint

Thanks for taking the time to respond. Hope your family is adjusting well.

God's Best.

 

For sure we are having a bit of culture shock, but not too bad. In reality, Estonia is a great place to live. There are few things that we cannot find. It is very western, so not really much different than the US. Having said that, it is still hard to leave everyone you know and move 8000 miles away. And getting used to the driving rules here is a fun way to spend the day (note: no right turns on red lights... few left turns anywhere....Do not pass the electric trams when they are stopped...)
But God has truly blessed us.
I will stop here to avoid this thread being moved to the off-topics list


clint