Central European University

Oh yeah, it's nice Orban spares no effort to stop evil plot that was bringing advanced studies in Social Sciences to Eastern Europe (where it is desperately needed). Har har!

This forum usually promotes learning. Are you quite sure you are in the right place, dude?

 

Social science is "desperately needed" anywhere? The more you know!

 

The term "Social Science" seems to me to be an oxymoron. It isn't really science at all, certainly not 'science' as that word is understood in the physical sciences. Sometimes 'social science' seems to me to be little more than an academic false-flag flown by political activists in hopes of endowing their schemes with the cultural prestige enjoyed by physical science. (Physical laws! Experimental confirmation! Mathematical proofs!) So people are supposed to trust that, just as a foundation of physical science is necessary for successful engineering, a foundation of social science is necessary for the functioning of successful societies.

Which is doubtful in my opinion. For one thing, there don't seem to be any simple mathematically expressible laws that describe how history unfolds, analogous to the laws of physics. The only case of this kind of program being put into action that I'm aware of (Marxism's "scientific socialism") turned out to be a disaster.

It's ironic that George Soros lifted his phrase "Open Society" from Karl Popper (one of Popper's early works was his two-volume 'The Open Society and its Enemies'), a determined critic of what he termed 'historicism', an existing word that Popper interpreted to mean "an approach to the social sciences which assumes that historical prediction is their primary aim... The belief... that it is the task of the social sciences to lay bare the law of evolution of society in order to foretell its future..." Popper associated this belief with the grand utopian social-change schemes so popular in the early 20th century and feared that attempts to put it into practice led inexorably to totalitarianism.

We seem to have gone full-circle. We are back at the imagined centrality of the 'social sciences' in directing the evolution of society and back at their being opposed to democracy. Mr. Orban was democratically elected in Hungary after all. But the Hungarian people's wishes and choices regarding the future of their own country don't seem to matter any longer, since CEU's prestigious academics with their utopian vision supposedly know better than the people (corrupted by "fear" and "populism") know themselves. The people (once again) have to be led by the academics into a shining future they don't recognize and don't want. Karl Popper is probably rolling over in his grave at how George Soros and Michael Ignatieff have seemingly turned his ideas on their head.

https://www.ceu.edu/category/rethinking-open-society

 

I made the mistake of reading some of the website you provided. These people need to be stopped. They think the populist movement is because of debtor-creditor relationships and that Democracy and capitalism cannot work together. WTF??

https://www.ceu.edu/article/2017-02-06/backsliding-democracy-caused-part-debtor-creditor-tensions-bohle-says

 

I have no problem with the social sciences. I just find the phrase "desperately needed" in reference to them (among other things) to be a bit humorous.

 

Ah. You did not grow up in a place with Lenin's portrait in every classroom. I have a rhyme from my 7th grade English class (otherwise terrible and forgotten; I can't remember who the teacher was). Enjoy:

There is a well-known portrait
Upon the clasroom wall
We see the face of Lenin
So dear and loved by all
And all the Soviet children
While studying day by day
Must always try to follow
Great Lenin's noble way"

Of course, we sneered at that stuff and thought ourselves great independent thinkers; but you grow up with crippling gaps in knowledge and way of thinking when surrounded by this. Sociology and economics, stat!

 

Nice conspiracy theory, if you did not use it to condone government censorship. It seems like your position is closer to fringe than "open society" is, and way more authoritarian. Fits Orban fan though.

Of what kind? There are many successful examples of practical applications of social sciences, even very technical ones. Wall Street comes to mind. As for Marxism (Leninism, actually) project, on step one they got rid of academic freedom. An ideayou support, and I, CEU, and American constitution, oppose.

Huh? Promotion of social sciences amounts to historicism? Popper would be surprised by this notion, to say the least.

Ignatieff, of course, is a mainstream historian whose last job was at Harvard; do you want to close that one too? Not to mention that Ignatieff was the major party candidate to lead Canada in 2011.

 

"Must be stopped"? What, you want to control speech now? There should be some handy videos on book burning on YouTube.

 

You're right!

In other news, majority of Hungarians polled support the discussed regulations:

Hungarians Back Orban's 'Anti-Soros' University Law

or for those "ughhh...breitbart!" folks:

Századvég: a többség a kormánnyal ért egyet a fels

 

A good portion of Russians, maybe a majority, would gladly vote to abolish democracy. 86% allegedly love Putin. So?

 

^^^
The irony isn't lost on me.

Hopefully they read DegreeInfo.com discussions so you can help to point out the error of their ways and political preferences!

 

It is hugely ironic.

For all the ranting and raving about the evils of Orban, he is popularly elected by the Hungarian people and by all accounts is rather popular there. (Probably in part due to the kind of hysterical opposition that he's aroused in some corners.) The Hungarians doubtless feel that they didn't regain their sovereignty from the communist block only to surrender it once again.

Isn't it the whole point of liberty and democracy that people have the freedom to steer their personal lives, their communities and their nations as they see fit? Even when it contradicts the desires of billionaire moguls and elite academics who would prefer to steer everyone in another direction?

 

So you are a nationalist. That's OK; it's not like I don't have any sympathy to the notion

Democracy maybe. The notion of "liberty", on the other hand, entails not demanding that people stop expressing their political views when defeated at the polls, no matter how many manipulative labels like "hysterical opposition" you choose to attach to that. If you are a kind of nationalists who doesn't feel this way towards your opponents... well, let's say I have much less sympathy to that. Also, do you really need education on the dangers of simple majorities "steering personal lives and communities" for the whole? I'm sure one of the many books by Michael Ignatieff will do.

And, hierophant... I rather strongly support the right of "elite academics" to steer everyone by writing and speaking stuff. Opposing that is a sign of an extremist, of any stripe. Are you an extremist?

 

https://www.aei.org/publication/despite-differences-gop-should-defend-soros-in-hungary/

 

I mean...obviously. How else would the Hungarian support be so high?!!

 

Update

https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/05/30/central-european-university-will-remain-budapest-2017-18?utm_source=ihe&utm_medium=editorial-site&utm_content=breakingnews

 

Not surprised in the slightest. Will be interesting to see how this progresses on both sides (American support, possible slights that Orban will implement in order to compromise the university).