Online Classes: Not as Good for Statistics.

I love online classes and I believe that online education is just as good as in-person education in most cases. However, I am currently experiencing a situation that suggests that online classes are not the best for all subjects. I'm in a doctoral level statistics class which is proving to be quite a stretch for me. I'm getting through with decent grades, (A's and B's) but it is really a strain to do so. This is one of the few circumstances where I miss being able to work face-to-face with instructors and other students.

 

I've taken two graduate stats classes: one in-residence and one DL. The in-residence one was much better but part of it may have been the crappy prof in the DL class verses the awesome prof in the in-residence course.

I would agree with your statement that online classes are not the best for all subjects.

 

I think the online DL format is great for adult learners concerning topics they have some experiences with. I know for my doctorate I was in the same position as you are here. I found some video recordings on YouTube where many of the basic concepts were being explained with visual examples and used that to fill in the lack of good demonstrations that a lot of mathematics learning requires. Just a thought, it worked for me and it didn't cost anything.

 

Exactly right, Dave. I've also found some stats videos online that are helping me in that same way. Now I have several classmates emailing me with questions. It's funny because I'm barely hacking through it and they are asking me questions, but suppose some of my classmates are just not making it. The videos are the difference for me. Even Khan Academy has some of the stuff I need.

 

A fact that you should be extremely happy about! :smile:

 

Well, I'll let you know if this turns out to be the case in the fall with Penn State's Graduate Certificate in Applied Statistics. FWIW, I think the Heriot-Watt DL quantitative methods course was the best "stats" related course I have ever taken, in-person or otherwise.

 

Dude, you are scaring me! I have to take this online for my MBA and I am sort of dreading it. I don't know what it is but statistics and me do not mix. I am doing boolean algebra and circuit design right now and I am fine with that. Its just the confidence intervals, ANOVA etc that I keep struggling with.

Good luck and I totally agree. Some subjects require more hand holding and student-teacher interaction. I think that a blended model is the future. Students CLEP/AP out of gen eds, take some classes in person, some online and get the best of all worlds.

I have had no luck finding a computer science tutor and this computer architecture course which starts next month has occupied a LOT of my time in pre-work and reading.

 

That's just the nature of online math education, I suspect. It's hard to learn completely foreign subject online. Statistics is weird, even for people who are relatively comfortable with "normal math" (algebra with a hint of calculus). You figure out the discrete math stuff (probability is not hard, but also completely disconnected from mainstream math) and stats aren't hard. That said, any online math is pretty hard for a lot of folks.

When you struggle in math, you really do need the support structure of a good study group. Pulling off a study group (good, bad, or otherwise) is nearly impossible in most online settings.

My suggestion is take full advantage of other online resources - look up "open courseware" for statistics. I don't know what Khan Academy has for stats, but look into it. Find free lectures to watch. Buy the Schaum's Outlines for the course you are taking - it's cheap and geared towards a low level of understanding (potentially unlike your textbook). Seeing the same subject from multiple perspectives might start to make things click. Stats isn't actually hard math - it's just so different.

 

Hi edowave I saw in your latest reply you mentioned you were taking courses from Penn State for the Graduate Certificate in Applied Stats. I was wondering if you could share some of your experiences. Thanks and best of luck to you!

 

Yeah, a few people have PM'd me about it so I might as well share here. I've only completed 1 course so far, STAT 500. Nothing special about it really. You basically read the text book. There is a weekly graded homework assignment. Two open-book graded online midterms, an open book online final that is proctored, and a group project.

There is a discussion board, but it isn't "required discussion." There are some old quicktime videos posted that count as the lecture. My work PC doesn't play quicktime videos, so most of the time I couldn't view them. Since it is an "applied" stats program, it is very software orientated. In the class I took, we used Minitab. Other classes use SPSS and SAS.

Overall, it is not a bad program. For me, I was taking this mostly as a refresher and to get my 18 grad credits for adjunct work. There were a few that were having a tough time because this was their first stats class since undergrad (or maybe ever). I don't think they were grasping the concepts as well by just punching numbers into Minitab and pressing a button. IMHO, a person new to stats might learn better from a pencil and paper stats class.

I'm not taking the Spring class because I have too much on my plate right now, but will probably start up again in the summer.

 

I seem to recall that TESC recommends students NOT use DL methods for math coursework. Some students simply can't get through math without in-person interaction. I also think TESC's suggestion takes into consideration the notion that some students would not perform well in a highly rigorous and structured exam/question-answer math environment.

 

This goes to show that if an online school actually cares about the success of its students, not just their money, they would provide some form of recorded lectures for classes like Statistics. If this sort of videos are available freely on Youtube, why can't online schools provide this service/resource, which would significantly improve the learning experiences of their students. But the don't because they care-less about what actually happens with your study, as long as tuition is paid. This is why I continue to insist that the best online schools are those that incorporate some level of synchronous activity or recorded video scaled to specific classes.

 

Concur 100%. My school offered videos, but the professor did not have a talent for doing this sort of thing and they ended up being useless. There is a special talent for that sort of thing that Kahn obviously possesses.

 

Thanks

Thanks for the reply. I suppose the prereqs for Applied Stats are not as rigorous as a MS Stats program so a lot of people will be enrolled that haven't taken a stats (or even a math course) recently. I'd be curious to hear more about your experience as you go forward in the program.

 

Maybe that has to do with the subject too. For a math subject like Calculus, it may help to have videos, because the functions, graphs, slopes, and areas need to be visualized in order to keep things straight. But in statistics, where you're basically working towards educated guesses, there's perhaps less visual information that can be given.

I don't think that Statistics is that bad a subject to do by DL. It's been some years now, but in the past, I've done it twice - the first time, I tested out by taking DSST Statistics. The second time, I took business statistics as a graduate student (it was a required course), but that actually covered even less material than the DSST (or at least the stated scope of the DSST). In studying for the DSST, I read TESC's recommended textbook for the subject, which was comprehensive. I'm sure it contained more knowledge about statistics than what my professor knew.

And in any case, statistics isn't entirely about book knowledge. My statistics professor was actually highly intelligent and knowledgeable, but hadn't really internalized the fundamentals of statistics, and didn't have a good intuitive sense of the subject. I suspect that it's because his main background was in economics, so he considered statistics to be just a chore and a means to an end. I don't think a student would gain much from having him hold their hand. It probably has to do with learning style preferences, but I've found Statistics to be a subject that benefits from quiet, solitary contemplation. It contains little koans that are enlightening when you stop to think about them - for example, um, why do so many natural phenomena follow normal distributions? What confidence tests break down when means and modes diverge? When do you need to balance power and sensitivity (probability of false negatives versus false positives)? When are statistically expected trial values different from perceived values? I'd rather clear my head and think about these things than clutter my head by nattering on about them with someone - that's one of the benefits of DL, I think.

 

One of the most fascinating parts of statistics for me was the Central Limit Theorem, where a plot of the means of a sample, a sample that is not normally distributed in any way, will actually turn out normal every time. I found myself wondering how such a thing could be. I have since developed my own ideas about that.

 

Took Statistics online at Allen Community College (KS) this past semester. It was a very difficult class, but the format allows you to redo your homework and pre-tests as many times as you want, scoring only the top grade. Even with getting a D on the mid-term and final (hey, it was difficult!), I earned a B overall. For $309 INCLUDING the book rental.

 

Saludos to you for your accomplishment. Anyone who can make it through stats deserves some respect.

 

I loved my stats class online. It wasn't that difficult for me. However, it took some time to figure it out. I had to read, watch youtube videos, and even rely on asking people (if I ever got really stuck). I'm going to have to take a graduate stats course online, soon. I am excited for it!