Top Tier DL Bachelor´s Degree

It's sometimes hard to determine whether an online degree really has the "same" prestige as the B&M degree. The Washington Post puts it like this:

I don't doubt that (for example) a Penn State World Campus MBA is a "real" Penn State degree, or that a Harvard Extension degree is a "real" Harvard degree. But I would question whether these non-traditional degrees really have the same prestige as their traditional counterparts. I suspect that alumni of Penn State-Smeal or Harvard College would question it too.

 

Ok, you´re right. But I think this degrees will definitely have more prestige than a degree from other DL schools, like Excelsior, TESC, etc... Don´t you think?

 

Hi - I don't pay much attention to the USN&WR rankings because I don't necessarily agree with the criteria they employ. Because of that I don't know where Boston University falls on that list. If I had to guess I'd say it's second tier. BU has a distance learning BA degree completion program. You could easily put together a couple of years of credit through various means (distance learning if you chose) and then finish it off at BU. I realize this is not exactly the original question but it's so close that I thought I'd throw it in.

 

Vincey37 is right, the alumni do care. My sister is a PSU alumnus and she was disgusted when the satelite campuses at Penn State began offering complete four year degrees. "Whoring degrees" was how she classified it. I can't imagine what her reaction would be to the world-campus, and I'm not going to ask........

 

Boston University is #57 of the Top National Universities.

 

Tell her to try it. It's probably more challenging than the ground campus.

I think Vincey went to Ohio State or Michigan

 

Haha, nope. The only thing I hate more than LLLoyd and his Wolverines is Notre Dame

 

I completed my BA at Harvard Extension. Most of the Harvard College students didn't even know we exisited and those that did - they cross enrolled, sat in on an evening lecture becauase they missed the prof's day lecture - were more amazed by the fact TA's weren't teaching the class, most of the prof's taught at the grad schools (if they were there to suck up the profs showed them the door), and that we were doing the same work as they were while working full time, raising families, etc.

For a time I belonged to the Harvard Club of New York and as an alum enjoy the same rights and priviliges as those who graduated from the College. The Extension program at Harvard isn't even the youngest "college" of the university as the Design, Education, Public Health, and Government schools were founded after the Extension program. I believe the B school began just a year before President Lowell created the Extension Program.

Anyhoo, the only difference between my degree and a Harvard College student's degree is that I have an ALB and the College grants AB degrees. As for commencement, I sat in the Yard with everyone else and enjoyed the party - totally ignoring the speakers up front The afternoon ceremonies, where one gets the actual degree, are more serious affairs in part because of the small size of the group. (We're broken up by school and, in the case of the College, house, making it much easier for administrators, parents, and loved ones to identify the party animal in the group).

If you are in the Boston/Cambridge area and looking to complete your BA don't hesitate to look at the Extension School.

Just my two cents,
Sid.

PS - As for DL BAs Ohio University offers a wide variety of degrees and they are issued from the Athens, or "main" campus. You might want to check it out.

 

DL Bachelor's Discussion

All,

As with many bachelor's degrees, you get out of it what you put into it. I don't think you can really go wrong with a state school, if you have legitimate reasons for putting off your education or for needing a DL education. I believe these schools will always be better received than a school with a virtual-only presence, although experience and focus tends to rule the day in any case. If you are near Harvard extension though - you should go

I would like to emphasize CargoJon's point that anyone who belittles PSU World Campus should take some courses to get a better understanding. I certainly don't believe my forthcoming MBA from that school is a "whore'd degree". It is AACSB accredited and, moreover, uses the same professors from key PSU institutions throughout the system (including Smeal). Go Uncle Joe!

Opinion

 

That's great. On the other hand, my sister is also an alumnus (three bachelor's degrees in four years) and doesn't have an issue with it. In fact, she is a big fan of DL and the World Campus.

If alumni have a problem with it, they need to take it up with the administration which is located at University Park for all campuses. The other campuses often market their programs with the concept of "a small campus with a big degree" and as an "internationally renowned University close to home".

A degree from Penn State is a degree from Penn State. The campus doesn't matter. The university doesn't make a distinction.

 

That we can certainly agree on

 

The university doesn't make a distinction because 19 locations offering bachelors degrees is a great cash cow for them. Penn State is an exception to how most schools run their DL programs or even their satellite campuses. The University of California at Berkeley is a campus that "matters" compared to the University of California at Riverside or wherever. The only reason it doesn't "matter" yet for Penn State is because people are still assuming University Park and not the other locations. If Harvard had the main campus in Cambridge and 25 other satellite campuses throughout Massachusetts, it would more easily be seen as "mattering." It will be seen in the future if Penn State's unusual practice dilutes the value of the "brand."

It's a great deal for DL students though. I think employers care far less about whether a degree is termed an AB for traditional students or an ALB or a BGS for returning students, as long as it covers the material of the major at a good school.

 

Yes, this is my point. I never put down the branch campuses (other than stating the fact of their low admissions standards), nor do I doubt their educational quality. But this is a thread about "top tier" DL degrees, so I approached the issue from a standpoint of prestige.

Think about it. If these branch campuses are issuing the same degrees as University Park, should they not be included in the US News calculations? As I'm sure many know, these rankings are based heavily on factors such as selectivity, peer assessment, retention, etc.

If the branch campuses were included (and with the current path, it's only a matter of time until they have to be), I have a feeling Penn State would take a substantial ranking hit - I would not be surprised if the drop is measured in the dozens of positions. But, again, this is solely an effect on prestige, not academic quality.

 

As far as US News is concerned, "Penn State" is just University Park, and the branch campuses are different institutions. This is easy to prove, given the obvious fact that other Penn State campuses have separate entries in the US News rankings. For example, Penn State-Erie is currently #46 under "Universities-Master's (North)" ranking, while Penn State-University Park is ranked #47 in the "National Universities" ranking. In fact, Penn State-Erie issues press releases about its specific US News ranking.

And since we are talking about business degrees, note that AACSB, the primary accreditation agency for business degree programs, accredits the various Penn State campuses (University Park, Erie, Harrisburg, etc.) separately. Penn State-Erie, for example, only achieved AACSB accreditation in 2003. ABET, the primary accreditation agency for engineering degree programs, does the same thing.

In theory, the Pennsylvania State University may be a single institution. But in practice, it's clear that distinctions between the different Penn State campuses are commonly drawn.

 

Penn State Behrend (Erie) was one of the first satellite campuses to offer 4 year degrees. They were one of only 2 I knew of back in the early 90's that actually gave 4 year degrees...so they and Harrisburg have always been a bit ahead of the learning curve vs. the rest of the campuses.

 

The point is that a degree from Penn State-Erie is not necessarily equivalent to one from Penn State-University Park. For example, both schools are accredited by AACSB in business, but only University Park is accredited by AACSB in accounting. You can get a BS degree in accounting from Erie, but it won't have the same professional accreditation as one from University Park.

Clearly the AACSB-accredited accounting degree is more prestigious, and it's reasonable to assume that this could matter to both students and employers. It also wouldn't surprise me if it affected the experience requirements for CPA licensure.

 

This is a revealing comment. If there is little difference between a Harvard College BA and a Harvard Extension BA, then why not say "If you are in the Boston/Cambridge area and looking to complete your BA don't hesitate to look at Harvard College" ?

The (obvious) answer is that practically no one gets admitted to Harvard College, whereas practically everyone gets admitted to Harvard Extension. Even if the curriculum, classes, and grading at the two schools were exactly the same, there would be a prestige difference for that reason.

Like it or not, the bottom line is that the "prestige" of an academic degree is related, in large part, to selectivity. And it's hard to come up with a truly selective DL bachelor's degree. Even the well-known schools that offer DL or other non-traditional degrees generally have lower admissions requirements for such degrees.

At Penn State, for example, it's clearly easier to get into the World Campus DL MBA program than the traditional Smeal School MBA program at University Park. The Business Week MBA ratings for 2005 show that Smeal only accepted 38% of applicants, and that those accepted had an average GMAT score of 651. World Campus accepted 57%, with an average GMAT score of 602.

This is not meant to knock either Harvard Extension or Penn State World Campus; they are both great DL degree programs which I would recommend to others. But they are clearly not as selective as their traditional counterparts, and for that reason they are not as prestigious as their traditional counterparts.

 

Whether these DLs are more or less selective though isn't the question. The question isn't even whether DL is equal to B&M. Even if we agree that the Harvard or Penn extension degrees (not a DL BA/BS available though) are less prestigious than their in-the-seat counterpart, there must be one DL BA/BS which is the most prestigious DL BA/BS.

I believe that when we compare DL to in-the-seat we're looking at apples and oranges. It's a valid consideration and should be looked at (how does DL compare to in-the-seat) but it isn't the question at hand, which has yet to be answered clearly.

Clearly, if someone insists on a highly prestigious and well recognized BA/BS - he needs to attend one of those schools in-the-seat. But it's human nature to want to sort and rank things. We should be able to sort and rank DL BA/BS programs to some criteria.

Just a thought...

 

But we can only do this if meaningful, quantitative, comparative criteria are available. Such data are readily available for B&M programs. But not for DL programs.

For example, you can usually assess a B&M school's position in the academic pecking order, simply by looking at average standardized test scores (SAT, ACT, etc). But how do you get such data for DL programs? Many (most?) don't even require such scores.

The folks at US News & World Report have some experience and expertise at ranking colleges and universities. And in fact, US News has produced "Top 20 rankings" of DL degree programs. What criteria do they use? Well, the US News rankings can tell you which 20 DL programs are the largest and smallest, or oldest and newest.

The US News DL rankings may strike you as lame and uninteresting, and they certainly haven't attracted anywhere near as much interest as their B&M school rankings. But they demonstrate that even US News can't find any meaningful comparative data to work with when it comes to DL programs.