Some advice to those considering a Ph.D.

Speaking of reimbursement, the federal government's National Health Service Corps has a program that allows healthcare professionals to have up to 25,000 dollars of their student loans written off every year they work in designated underserved areas. The amount written off depends on the aggregate loan amount. I live in rural eastern Tennessee and my part of Appalachia is considered a heavily underserved region. The community mental health center I work for is a participating site for this program. When I finish with my Ph.D. in clinical psychology, I may qualify for the program. Two years service and the feds will write off 50,000 bucks! If you stay a third year in the program, the annual loan forgiveness goes to 35,000 dollars. And that is not coming from the employer so I'd still get a doctoral level salary. I'm not counting on this, but If its available when I am done, I'd take advantage of it in a heart beat!

 

Wrong KIND of doctorate!

Sooo...get a professional degree, instead!

Teasing aside, a glance at the UC Berkeley fees pages confirm something I've long suspected; professional doctorates are worth a LOT more money than most Ph.D. degrees. The UC system is now charging a "professional degree fee" totalling tens of thousands of dollars to law, optometry, and other professional students. (MBA, too.) No such fee is charged Ph.D. students, even those in closely related fields.

 

My new girlfriend is a first year student in the Professional Veterinary Medicine program at Colorado State University. She paid for her entire undergraduate degree in Animal Science with loans, and obtained an M.S. in Environmental Science while waiting (three years) to get accepted to vet school, also paid for on loans.

Since she is an out of state, non-resident, unsupported vet student, her tuition runs about $37,000 per year.

She is currently $70,000 in debt on student loans, and will be tacking on another $120,000 over the next 3 years.

Add in the two credit cards that she uses to buy books, gas, and food, and she will have close to $200,000 of education-related debt by the time she earns her DVM.

Expected salary upon graduation? $35k-$40k a year doing large animal/ranch vet work. Her value on the market NOW with an MS in Environmental Science: At least $45k/yr.

Financial sense? Absolutely not. Would I do it? Heck no!

But you sure should see how she lights up around her horses. And THAT is what really matters.

Just my $1.50 (inflation!)

-Jassen

 

And at least she'll have a nice PROFESSIONAL DOCTORATE to keep her from the unemployment line!

Just a thought: She might think about working for the federal government as a researcher in zoonoses? (spelling?) or at the Center for Disease Control.

 

The "Academic Underworld", that statement makes me feel all warm cozy inside.

It makes me even more proud that I went to a community college.

 

Good for her!

I have been around some very rich people here in South Florida. Many have been some of the most unhappiest people I ever met. They thought the big houses and expensive cars would make them happy. Didn't work out that way.

She may become an expert in the field and make a lot of money in the future. She may not. But if she is happy she is a success no matter how much she makes.

And the horses will be better off for it!

 

How about the kitty cats and puppy dogs?

 

time, love, and money

My goal is to go into semi-retirement in a place that is quiet and civilized, outside the USA. Working at the local university would be nice, and I want to teach online for US universities, because they pay better than most non-US universities.

For this reason, my area is Business and not Women's Studies, Hermeneutics, or Medieval Studies.

I do not expect to wear a millstone of vast wealth, but I have chosen my field, in part, based on expected income.

 

Re: Reply from Gary North

Not being a fan of conservative whack jobs myself (unless it's me) - Mr. North's article is not that far off. A text recommended to me by John Bear (Negotiating Graduate School) says much the same thing.

Every institution has their own culture and agenda, of course - but a campus with a business focus (most for profits for example, UoP as an extreme example) try to have as many adjunct faculty vs. full time as they can.

 

lifetime employment vs a lifetime employed

This is a blessing and a curse. If you are looking for tenure, then the future is bleak. However, only in academia do we continue to hear lamentations for the good ol' days of lifetime employment. In no other industry, except government bureaucracy, is this the case.

The vast majority of the adjuncts used in the proprietary schools hold Masters degrees. However, the size of the population that holds Masters degrees is significantly larger than the number of adjunct openings. Landing an online gig if your highest degree is an MA or MS is non-trivial.

However, if you have a PhD, DBA, or EdD, life is very different.

Accreditors require programs that they accredit to have some portion of the instruction conducted by holders of doctoral degrees in the subject. I've heard 25% used as a minimum, but it is a good idea to aim a bit higher, just in case.

The population of holders of doctoral degrees who can teach well online is small compared with the number of adjunct openings.

Let me repeat that. The population of holders of doctoral degrees who can teach well online is small compared with the number of adjunct openings.

Whenever I find an instructor, whose first name is Dr., who manages his or her online class well, completes administrative duties quickly and efficiently, and volunteers for committee work, I treat that individual like a finely cut gemstone. It is a rare and beautiful thing.

Much more commonly, I find myself putting up with prima donnas, in order to ensure sufficient doctoral coverage.

If your dream is to lounge on the deck of your sailboat, someplace that has a lot of fruit trees and warm winters, teaching online, then a doctoral degree in a subject that is in demand, while not a guarantee, makes this a goal and not a fantasy.

Granted, it isn't tenure, but as long as your fingers can type, your eyes can see, and your mind can form coherent thoughts, if you fit well in the online environment, you will not want for work.

 

Re: time, love, and money

Sounds like a reasonable plan.

I know two adjunct faculty who live in eastern Europe and teach online - they checks are deposited to their Schwab One accounts in Denver.

Apparently, an expat can live quite nicely on $800-$1,000 per month.

 

Re: Re: time, love, and money

A friend of mine returned from a visit to Bolivia recently. He told me that Internet is easily available, and that he met an American there, who was working as an online adjunct. He was able to live quite well on the money that he was making.

In Russia and Ukraine, typical income is only a couple hundred dollars per month.

If you wanted to do the perpetual tourist thing, you would need a US bank account that had an online interface (and, what bank doesn't these days?), a debit card for cash withdrawals, and a doctoral degree in a subject that is in demand at UoP, Capella, UMUC, et.al.

And then, in the words of Bug Bunny, "Bon Voyagee!"

 

Re: lifetime employment vs a lifetime employed

Regarding these three quotes:

and:

and:

You guys have given me quite a bit to chew on -- and have made me think about things that I never before contemplated -- and you have me thinking about retiring from law enforcement as quickly as possible (in 8.5 more years) and then moving into online teaching while living in a distant more-affordable country with a not-yet-earned doctorate. With that in mind, I should currently:
- continue on with doctoral studies
- keep my mouth shut
- simply do what the online instructors ask
- give them what they want and not what I want
- completely mould myself to their expectations, whoever they might be, throughout the program

All for the sake of the future.

 

Re: Re: lifetime employment vs a lifetime employed

What is the topic of your dissertation? CJ is a good field to be in. Demand for instructors seems to be heating up, and a PhD can help you get more consulting work.

All for the sake of the future, yes.

I am guessing from your comments above that some of what you are studying does not gibe with your real-world experience. This is very common.

My wife is working on her graduate degree in Accounting, and she is convinced that one of her instructors this semester has never worked outside academia. However, he does control the grade book, and your transcripts are permanent.

Start a blog, and vent there.

 

Re: Re: Re: lifetime employment vs a lifetime employed

It would be a DBA with a specialization in CJ Administration. I'm still doing the coursework, but am leaning on doing a dissertation relating to officer/employee satisifaction or something along those lines because:
- it is measurable (accurately or inaccurately is another issue)
- it is basic and it isn't something "way out there"
- it could conceivably be relevant to my career in the future and could be applied to the real world.

At this point, I am not sure how to measure officer/employee satisifaction. I considered doing a dissertation on the success or failure of a newly implemented drug-court program that my county has, but tracking down the participants seems like too much of a challenge, in addition to HIPPA obsticles. Learning about employee satisifaction seems more measurable and relevant, so that's what I'm learning towards, but we can't begin a dissertation without committee approval -- and that's about a year away.

I guess that during our undergraduate studies, we all quickly learn that the professor is always right, even if they are wrong because they mark the final grade, be it accurate or not!!! It has been my experience that instructors can be favorably or unfavorably influenced, beyond the student's actual academic performance. My anecdotal observation is that appropriate smiles at "just the right time," coupled with paying attention (even if you're bored out of your skull) can favorably influence your grade e.g. you can swing an A, even if your coursework was a B. I've seen it several times. Conversely, at the other end of the spectrum, if a student pisses off an instructor, then he can easily get a C or a D, regardless of his academic performance. Subsequently, most of us learn during our undergraduate studies to give the professors what they want, regardless of our personal opinions, experiences or belief systems. That's why I previously wrote that the professor is always right, even if he's wrong!!!! Giv'em what they want!!!

Yes, my real-world experiences frequently differ from some (not all) of the theories of the academic world. My brother went straight from high school to 12 years of college to a professorship where he teaches education and business administration. Since he has never worked in the real world, how can he teach undergraduate and graduate students about how to succeed in the real world? However, I will grant you that he is an Einstein and is light years ahead of my intelligence.

 

Re: Re: Re: lifetime employment vs a lifetime employed

Your wife may wll have a professor that doesn't have a clue. On the other hand, I have had many students over the years that had trouble in class because the lecture/textbook and/or course materials departed from their personal experiences with a particular employer or in a specific industry. I'm not suggesting that your wife is in this situation, but stop and think of how an ex-Enron employee's real-world experience would differ from what is presented in the classroom.

 

Re: Re: time, love, and money

You have given me a new found motivation to finish my PhD. Thailand or Costa Rica, here I come!

 

My compliments on taking the high road