Fielding versus Touro

No problem about the rant. And, of course, as a general rule, the more information one gives, the better the advice can be. But, as I mention in a previous post, my main intention in asking "Fielding or Touro?" was just to get folks' knee-jerk reactions regarding the respectability of each institution.

 

Well said, Bao!

 

I agree.

 

I am sorry I just can't let this go; I tried...I really tried.

and why shouldn't they?
My grandmother was a wise woman; she always gave great analogies, here is one for you: "birds that poop in their own nest are stupid creatures; so with people, only fools denigrate their own achievements".

I am sorry I couldn't resist.

 

What demeaning comment? The two schools are utterly non-alike. Hey, I even qualified my comment, if you go back and read it.

 

And people who are unwilling to acknowledge the negative aspects of their chosen degree programs can sound like shills.

The purpose of this thread was to compare TUI and Fielding, not to debate the quality of TUI. I made the comparison of TUI and NCU, and I stand by that. Not in terms of quality, but in terms of the type of process, learning experience, and academic community found in each. Precisely the same? Of course not. Heck, between the two of them, I'd pick Capella!

Fielding, like Union, Walden, and Argosy, come from a different time and place. (I'd throw NSU in there, but they're more like a B&M school offering DL.) Fielding, Walden, and Union are much more learner-centered; Fielding very much so and Union utterly so. Walden and Fielding have come along without any major scrapes, Union's been all about one scrape after another. I suspect the level of quality of work coming from Walden and Fielding is better overall than at Union, but that's because Union has catered to too many marginal candidates. That's Union's fault, of course.

Pick the degree that meets your needs. But all other things being equal, I'd take Fielding 100 out of 100 vs. TUI. Touro College, on the other hand....

 

Oi...this one: I don't normally say this about accredited schools, but comparing TUI to Fielding is a joke.

 

Oh, Susanna!

Decimon, you are too funny! However, unless Susanna knows the refrain, she probably won't laugh.

Anyway, this post needs some lightening-up!

"Oh Susanna, oh don't you cry for me,
for I come from Alabama with a banjo on my knee."

Ann (from Alabama -- true!)

 

Re: Oh, Susanna!

I took Susanna's name as a segue allude(sic) but was not directing the post at her. I meant that the referenced schools, and especially Touro, are here described as being every way and every opposite.

Now I need an opening for these schools 'line dancing' to try to, uh, rope in Dr. Bear.

 

Re: Oh, Susanna!

Actually I thought it was very funny! In fact, let me add the refrain: "better ply or you'll fry in the sky"

Your song on the other hand needs some originality! Yikes!

Susanna

 

You know it!

 

In an earlier post, I referred to "tesch's" use of Touro College when comparing TUI to other schools as "intellectually dishonest." This was unfair.

The use of that term really should be applied to someone only if you think they're purposely distorting the facts--in other words, rarely and sparingly. While I disagreed with "tesch's" argument, I should have merely challenged the use of Touro College. Instead, I implied his integrity was in question. This was a wildly inappropriate implication, and I am at fault.

I offer my apologies to "tesch," while still reserving the right to disagree with his argument. Rather than repeat my stance on the subject, I'll just say I'm sorry.

 

Rich,

I normally try and refrain from engaging in arguments on this forum, however, I have to chime in on this one.

Your analogy is way off base here. A Touro College Degree is signed by the President and founder of Touro College Bernard Lander just as my TUI Degree is. Not to mention my TUI Degree has “Branch Campus of Touro College, New York" listed right under the TUI name. Also, TUI is linked from the Touro College website for "online courses".

How does your analogy using UC Berkeley and UC Irvine in any way resemble the association that tesch was making with TUI and Touro College?

I would like to hear how you came to the conclusion that they are "utterly separate".

Edited to add: Somehow I missed tesch and your posts that already covered this so no need to state your opinion again even though I still disagree with it.

 

I think the notion that TUI is a branch of Touro College in any substantially educative way is mistaken.

This isn't about ownership; it is about education. Graduating from TUI doesn't earn one a Touro College degree, does it? I know what the diploma says, but does the Board of Regents approve it? Is the Regents seal on the diploma? Does the Middle States include it in their accreditation of Touro College? Again, if the answers to those question are in the affirmative, I should re-think my stance.

In New York, the term "university" is highly regulated, restricted to schools approved to offer a sufficient number of doctoral programs. If I'm not mistaken, Touro College isn't a university, so it is hard to accept that they, under the NY Board of Regents, have a university as a branch of their college, even if that's what their respective websites say.

The UC System example was clear. I don't need to explain it because someone else can't understand it. Reject it instead, if that suits you.

Finally, none of this has any real meaning regarding the question of TUI vs. Fielding. I just objected to including Touro College into the comparison.

 

If you compare their web pages (TU and TUI's), they share few similarities. With the exception of using the name 'Touro', the format and templates are completely different and so are the logos.

Why didn't TC add doctoral programs in NY and operate a virtual school directly from there instead? This would've allowed Touro College to call itself a university in NY and would've avoided so much confusion.

-S

 

Tim D, hello from Nevada.

I’ve been following this thread with some interest, hoping to learn more about Fielding’s doctoral program in Education Leadership & Change. However, there have been a few statements that I find potentially misleading, and have decided to point them out for the sake of clarification.

We are (I believe) in agreement that Fielding’s various degree programs, in comparison to WGU’s, have differences in structure and format, however there are statements you’ve made that I feel are opinion, but might leave others with the impression that they are facts.

First: Your statements, “If you want the prestige factor then Fielding has it over any of the programs we are discussing.” and “The quality of Fielding will never be questioned.” are both assumptions, and opinion. I have had similar discussions with many people in academia who have earned doctorates from well established and highly ranked brick and mortar universities. Even with this perceptual advantage, they have related stories about others who’ve questioned the quality of programs and departments at the institution from which they earned their terminal degree, in relation to programs in the same discipline offered by various other institutions. An institution’s academic reputation is subjective. To discuss it as if it were an absolute and static property is misleading.

I am not disagreeing with you on the quality of Fielding’s programs. I have always heard positive things about FGU, and have neither first hand knowledge, nor seen any evidence which would lead me to conclude that their programs are anything but rigorous and excellent.

Second: Another statement you’ve made, “If cost is a factor which by some of your other choices it appears to be then WGU or Touro would be adequate but when comparing Fielding it is of a higher tier.” Also seems to be based on several assumptions, is misleading, and therefore is a logical fallacy.

Your statement implies that lower cost indicates lesser quality. WGU is a non-profit institution. Part of its mission and founding purpose is to offer high quality education at the lowest possible cost. The “cost” is kept as low as determined feasible in order to keep it affordable. It was founded for the purpose of offering a quality education to competent individuals that might not otherwise have the opportunity to receive such an education, and, in order to fill a shortage of qualified professionals within certain fields, in rural areas, and particularly in the Western States. To raise tuition and associated educational fees beyond the financial means of the majority of its intended potential-students would be contrary to its mission.

The very same statement also misleads others to believe that you are citing some reputable organization’s ranking of institutions, rather than your own perception of them. You compare WGU and TUI against FGU offering that the latter is a “higher tier.” WGU does not participate in rankings, much like other quality institutions such as EBS and many (if not all) schools within UNL. Therefore it cannot be accurately said to be of a lower “tier.” This decision to abstain from participation in rankings does not indicate a lack of quality, rigor, or even a lesser standing in more perceptual elements such as reputation. In actuality, “prestige” and “distance education” are generally mutually exclusive in relation to each other, except in rare cases.

Finally, I would like to point out that TUI, and even more so, WGU, are both fairly new in comparison to other institutions of higher education. It is fair to say that FGU likely has a higher level of name recognition. It takes time to build a reputation of any kind.

I appreciate your opinions, and believe you have the intention of helping others in choosing a school and program that might best suit their needs. I just feel you’ve expressed your views in a manner which might lead to misunderstanding.

- Intro

 

I sorta agree with what Rich is saying about comparing the programs, because Fielding is long established. However, the analogy of University of California is to UC Irvine is more like Touro College is to TUI, than UC Berkeley is to UC Irvine, because Touro has several loosely connected campuses. Of course, I'm not saying that Touro is comparable to the University of California, just that TUI is one of several campuses.

Additionally, TUI is really too young on the research scene to make a direct comparison with Fielding a valid proposition, and the doctoral programs don't overlap very much. However, I think you'll find that the importance and quality of the research being conducted in finished TUI dissertations to be trending toward Fielding, but that's just my opinion.

Moreover, I think that short doctoral residencies tend to help the weaker Ph.D. students become stronger more than they help develop more "robust" scholarship -- modality schmodality!

Dave

 

Of course Fielding could lose it WASC and APA accreditation tomorrow and become a California licensed school but I highly doubt that will ever happen. Of Course if you are from the behavioral perspective of psychology, then Fielding would be considered a sub-par school because its emphasis is humanistic. Then again I come from a behavioral school and all my old psych professors would rather see their graduates in an APA school then a state licensed or RA only program, Fielding meets those requirements. Every school including the Ivies is up for scrutiny, but a Harvard Degree is never an outright embarrassment, neither would a FGU degree. When it comes to reputation everything is subjective (e.g.
Stanford is too expensive or MIT is superior to Cal Tech or vice versa) I am unaware of a truly fair and effective way to quantify such things. Unless you want to start look at Faculty appointments but then you would claim it puts TUI and WGU in a disadvantaged position because they have not been around as long and that would be a correct criticism. So in summary I never claimed I wasn't giving an opinion or that my opinion matters all that much.

Again speaking methodologically what constructs do you wish to measure this by? I must say that anything I come up with again as I mentioned before would be construed as biased because Fielding is older and therefore has more graduates which will lead to more successful outcomes then we get to the argument how do we me measure success of a program or its outcome?
How far do you really want to take this?
I believe that if I said Cal Tech was a superior school from Devry then you'd still be after me about the whole tier thing.
Also you mention” distance education and prestige are mutually exclusive to each other except in rare cases”. Well I dare say we have one of those cases! Of course I must point out in logic if there are exceptions to a rule then the rule is invalid.

Alright for anyone keeping score here is the long and short of what I said, meant to say and otherwise implied. Fielding in my opinion is the hands down choice against the other schools mentioned in this thread (except for Stanford, MIT,Harvard and Cal Tech which I just introduced). In my opinion Fielding has more prestige then the other schools, not that the other schools may not carry their own prestige, just that Fielding is a better known academic institution(in my opinion). Also I was only trying to help other as mentioned above.

Seasons Greetings from the Hub of the Universe

 

Thank you, Rich. I truly appreciate your professionalism and apology. Nothing more needs to be said...again, thank you!

Tom

 

Thank you, Rich. I truly respect and appreciate your professionalism and apology. Nothing more needs to be said...again, thank you!

Tom