College Rankings

Somewhere I thought I saw that "capella" means little star.

 

Doesn't this just give you the feel of a place where you can go to rise up out of the ashes?

 

Now this just sounds like a degree to mow one's lawn with! Haven't you done without a Touro long enough?

 

Sounds geographically challenged, but no worse than their accreditor.

 

I must agree with Dr. Bear and Tony on the value of choosing a school with faculty members who have earned a reputation for accomplishment within your chosen discipline, and field. When I started looking for a school offering degrees in education, I did some investigation to find out what the faculty at my (short-list of) prospective institutions had accomplished, within my profession. I also wrote many in my chosen career to gain their perspective on the reputation of the schools. I’d rather learn under the guidance of those who have demonstrated excellence in my areas of study and interest, and are active contributors in their profession.

Tom’s viewpoint has some merit in that cost can be a limiting factor for many, especially for those pursuing a career in education. It certainly was for me. Many of the institutions I had considered seemed financially out of reach. I didn’t want to spend a great portion of my life paying-off loans on a teacher’s salary. This much acknowledged, I do think that the better course would be to weigh (perceived) quality against financial considerations. To me, it would be better to pay more money over the course of time, if the guidance and quality of instruction you receive provides a greater opportunity for relevant learning, and intellectual growth. My belief on this is that if the education I gain from a given institution helps me develop a higher level of competence, stronger depth of understanding, and more proficiency, then I’ll likely have a better return on my investment. In my opinion, the most precious investments I can make are my time, and efforts. Neither of these can be replaced.

Regarding an institution’s name, and public perception…

I don’t think the name should be a major deciding factor. While it might be true that some employers will judge an unknown institution, and by proxy its graduates, based partly on perception. It is also likely that their perception will continue to be influenced by many other more germane factors. In time, an institution, its graduates, and our own job performance and history of achievement will alter any initial or current perception. Western Governors University was at one time named Western Virtual University, which (IMO) does not enhance a perspective employer’s perception in any preferential way. Even if the previous name had been retained, I think I’d have still chosen the school for the same reasons I originally had.

Potential preconceived notions not withstanding, shouldn’t the more important deciding factor be what you believe you will gain intellectually from study with an institution and its faculty?

 

I can appreciate and respect your position and reasons for selecting Northcentral. However, it is possible that the position you take surrounding the reputation and recognition of each school and respective degrees vary from mine based on your location and industry of interest.

In many areas Walden, Capella, Touro, and Nova are quite well known and respected as reputable and established schools. Walden is very well recognized in the Midwest and Southeast; Capella is well known in the Midwest; Touro has strong recognition in the Northeast, Southeast and West coast areas; and Nova is very well recognized in the Southeast. Northcentral has yet to establish its recognition.

Although well known everywhere, I believe that University of Phoenix raises concern with hiring managers because of their for-profit structure and aggressive marketing nature. Accordingly, degrees from other for-profits also suffer in terms of industry perception by way of association. Right or wrong, University of Phoenix and, by association, other for-profits schools such as Northcentral, Capella and Walden are often grouped and thought of as mass commodity or discount store type RA degree suppliers. Walden and Capella have overcome much of the “UoP for-profit type” scrutiny in their regional markets because they have produced a large number of capable employees for area companies and organizations. Non-profits such as Touro and Nova are afforded greater credibility and recognition as learning institutions versus business ventures.

Unfortunately, I’m not confident that Northcentral or its degree holders can rely on their mainstream name to overcome or mask a universal lack of recognition and for-profit perception anytime soon; at least to the extent that their reputation and degree recognition will equal or surpass that of Nova, Touro, Walden or Capella for that matter. Additionally, old baggage related to Northcentral’s perceived associations and low admission standards seem to raise concern for at least some employers, regardless of the many counter-arguments that are made. From my experience in the information technology and telecommunications industry, I have not observed where degrees from University of Phoenix or Northcentral offer nearly as much in the way of reputation, acceptance or utility as other online schools and programs -- especially the non-profit schools. I’m familiar with at least three regional/national companies including my own that will not pay or reimburse for coursework at UoP or Northcentral; however, they will pay for Nova, Touro, Walden and even Capella courses and degrees.

Accordingly, I would have to argue that currently the mainstream names University of Phoenix or Northcentral offers either school or their degree holders very little benefit in the way of utility over that of the other schools mentioned here, at least in many parts of the country and in some industries. However, your mileage may vary depending on where you live and work.

Tom

 

I like UofP's name. Their advertising practices made their name ugly.

I agree with you on NCU's name. Are the North or Central? Someone get them a compass!

I find all of your analogies humorous.

 

I agree that where you live and work has a lot to do with university acceptance and recognition. Where I live and work, Touro, Nova, Walden, Capella, and NCU are all treated equally simply because no one knows the difference. I would say that the only university of those listed that anyone would know would be UofP and not necessarily for good reason. Where I work for example, unless you have a degree from a well known school like Penn State, the only thing that matters is the accreditation.

 

Indeed, competition can be fierce in some areas of the country where Ivy League degrees are a dime a dozen... the DC and Boston areas come to mind.

Tom

 

It’s funny that you mentioned the DC area…I’ve heard of it.

In the DC area, unless you have a degree from a well known school, the only thing that really matters is accreditation and even that is often times not enough to get your foot in the door. When I start talking education and accreditation with my coworkers I am always surprised by how little most people really know. For these people to be able to differentiate a degree from any of the schools listed above would be truly astonishing. This holds true for better known schools like Nova as well. If you mention Nova in these parts people assume you are referring to Northern Virginia Community College.

An NCU PhD may not guarantee me a promotion but I feel it will set me apart from my peers that have decided not to obtain any graduate degree let alone a doctorate.

 

I know of Strayer but it's not one that I hear of very often so I have no idea.

How are your studies going at GWU?

I looked at GWU for a cohort DSc program that they just started to offer close by but the $2700 per class price tag was prohibitive for my budget.

 

I can comment on Strayer:

We are doing very well actually, we are opening 6 new campuses this year and now have about 30,000 students.

The structure is very different from UOP (where I used to work) much more going on with student advising, and much better retention of faculty and students. Plus we are on the quarter system which is much more manageable than the 5-6 week UOP courses as far as knowledge retention goes.

Steve,

I went to GWU for one semester (MBA), great school, but I cannot afford it anymore. I was going to transfer to marymount, but they aren't much cheaper; now that I work at Strayer I get 90% off tuition so I am going to finish up an MBA here and probably move over to GW for a Ph.D. or Ed.D.

$995 per course!!! my god, I was paying that per credit hour in the business school....

Good luck in your studies, that looks like an awesome program.

What do you plan on doing with the degree?

 

When I inquired about GWU's DSc program, my jaw just about dropped when their representative quoted a price of $900 per credit hour. I started to look into ways to pay for the degree such as scholarships and students loans because after all, GWU is a "top tier" school [providing you hold any stock in USN&WR rankings]. Realization then set in, I want to earn a doctorate for personal rather than professional reasons.

NCU may not be a "top tier" university, but their Federal employee tuition scholarship program makes their PhD programs very affordable. I can do the entire doctorate without going into debt.

 

I'm not surprised it's expanding, in fact I've watched it expand from being a D.C. area institution to one that stretches from Pennsylvania to Florida. I was more curious about its reputation.

It's actually pretty good, most of our students an alumni are pretty happy with their experience, and the name is very big in this area. Public schools like GMU and ODU don't really see us as competition like they do UOP.

That's reasonable. You're in Northern Virginia, right?

Yes, I work at the Loudoun Campus


If you're interested in education, doctoral programs are exclusively EdD at GW. What's your goal? Are you considering schools other than GW when you get to that point?

I want to make a career either teaching or working in administration at a college. I am not concerned with making a huge amount of money, I just really enjoy helping people better themselves and I like the industry and the concept of adult education. I am thinking about starting off teaching adjunct at Northern VA Community College and then trying to move into a dean/chair's position there, but there is a lot up in the air now.

I have been looking at other traditional schools like GMU, American, Georgetown, and Old Dominion (they have a degree in community college leadership/teaching). I have also been looking at online schools like Walden, Touro and Capella because I have seen several professors with Ph.D's from those three teaching here, at NVCC, Mason, James Madison and George Washington.


Honestly? I plan to use it to get into a good doctoral program. I'd like to see the Center be a financially self-sustaining entity. I'm moving back to the D.C. area in a few weeks, and in January I'll start taking care of non-profit incorporation, 501(c)(3) application, and similar bullet points that I've been meaning to do for some time. Thus, I've started grad school now (and chose this program over a similar one that cost less at Fort Hays) because I recognize that I need academic credentials to have the credibility to move my ideas forward.

I couldn't agree more, GWU goes a long long way around here, so in many ways, if you can afford it, they are well worth the cost. The courses I took were excellent as were the instructors, and I can't wait to go back; but it's also stupid of me to not utilize the discount I get at Strayer for my MBA.

 

That's interesting. I'd have thought that Strayer would attract more students away from local state schools and community colleges than Phoenix would.

We may well do that, what I meant was, we are not seen as a "thorn in their side." Some of the professors in this area (especially at GWU and GMU) are very adamant in stating their dislike of UOP, Strayer doesn't come up, probably because we've been here for a long time.

Do you have a sense of how difficult it is these days to get a gig adjuncting at NVCC or GMU?

Not particuluarly, but I have worked closely with NVCC for some time now. I did business development and counseling when I was at UOP and was on each NVCC campus several times a month. I developed a very good relationship with the staff and teachers at the Annandale, Loudoun and Alexandria campuses, plus I am hold two Associate's Degrees from there.

I am not sure of the hiring climate or ins and outs at GMU, although I do know they are desparate for new teachers due to their insane growth in the past couple years.



Also, since you'd get in state tuition, the University of Virginia's Curry school of education is ranked 22nd (just above GW!) and I believe you can pursue an EdD from them through the Northern Virginia Center in Tyson's Corner -- just down Route 7 from you.

I am familiar with the UVA campus, Strayer has a 6+6 Masters Degree/Certificate program that we offer in conjunction with that campus. It's pretty cool, basically we advise and admit the students here, and they are admitted at UVA as well; then they are given a list of Master's Degrees (awarded by Strayer) coupled with Certificates (awarded by UVA) and a list of classes that are required and can be taken in conjunction at both schools. SAIC is VERY into sending their employees into the program due to the concentration areas:


UVA Cert in security management+Strayer MS in Communications Technology

UVA Cert in Contracts and Procurement Managemen+Strayer MBA in Acquisition and contract management

UVA Cert in Project Management+Strayer MBA in Management

UVA Cert in Leadership+Strayer MBA in Management

UVA Cert in Technology Leadership+Strayer MBA in Management

 

That is great to know. As a Capella student myself, I've also seen several Ph.Ds from Capella teaching at: Penn State, UCLA and its Extension, Florida Gulf Coast, NYU and Northeastern University. This is good news for future online doctorates.

http://www.ohr.psu.edu/hrdc/staff.cfm

http://www.unex.berkeley.edu/dept/bhs/instructors.html

http://www2.library.ucla.edu/facultynews/2844.cfm

http://www.fgcu.edu/trustees/AgendaFile/2003/5-2003/Items_1-5.pdf

http://www.scps.nyu.edu/media/newsletter/1105/newsltr_1105_newprofs1.htm

http://www.staging.neu.edu/spcs/aboutSPCS/Faculty

I'm also seeing more and more online doctorates from Capella showing up at some very nice Masters level universities around the region such as the University of Richmond, ranked among the best liberal arts universities in the nation by USNEWS .

http://oncampus.richmond.edu/academics/scs/document/catalog/osher/2005_summer.pdf


-S