Is cost enough to justify an unaccredited program?

Well, there is always the REMOTE possibility that I am WRONG about you...

Naw.

Anyway, good post!

 

Re: Oh, joy!

Oh, OK, here's my post in the short form:

One mustn't be a slave to how one appears to others, for this stiffles the soul, but even so, one must meditate upon how others state he appears to them, lest one instead become a slave to an ethical Moebius Strip. By considering well what others state, and taking criticism personally enough to at least understand the perceived rationale underlying the opinions, one is prone to avoid waking up kissing a bitter pillow and peering in a fun-house mirror.

 

Hey Quinn! That wasn't so hard, was it?

Jack

 

Many amusing musings in this thread.

I went from an RA non-APA accredited to an RA APA-accredited degree. It required an additional two years which proved to be one of the best investments I’ve ever made. The sense of accomplishment and esprit de corps alone was worth the effort not to mention I would never have qualified for the wonderful position in a med-school affiliated teaching hospital with an APA-approved internship in which I’ve trained students for 20+ years. I may have been able to obtain licensure in some state with my first degree; I just couldn’t tolerate feeling like a second class citizen who had to go in through the back door. I give thanks to the man upstairs and my wife for supporting me in my decision to press on.

David

 

Not nearly so difficult as resisting the temptation to comment on the particular topic of this thread! (Which I'm sure everyone who knows realizes is like putting a sugar fiend in a candy store and saying "Everything you can grab in the next 10 minutes is yours, free!")

 

Okay, QTJ.

I'll bite.

I'm satisfied that you really AREN'T a troll and shill or that, if you are, you are the most fun of all trolls to listen to.

I promise to keep a civil tongue in my head.

You may comment when ready, Gridley!

 

I have equal respect for you and Quinn, and he has never been a mill shill any more than you have.

Maybe said in jest, but in bad taste and completely unnecessary.

You are better than that Nosborne.

 

peace, ain't it wonderful

Anyone else notice that Quinn and Nosborne are not fighting?
Anyone else notice the complete good humour of this entire thread?
Anyone else notice that crabby predictions of Nosborne getting slammed by other DI regulars absolutely failed to come true?
Anybody else notice that a crabby regular then came over here to try to start a fight?

'ow droll!

 

Re: peace, ain't it wonderful

Who is the crabby regular?

Regular where at exactly?

 

Hmmm. Musings on unaccredited degrees...

On justification:

It depends upon to whom one needs to justify. If it's to a licensing body then it's usually best not to bother. (Usually but not always, like if your goal is to be California lawyer.) If it's for career change/advancement it depends on the career in question, check first. If it's toward a subsequent goal of furthering education, check options first. If it's toward a goal to teach at RA accredited colleges or universities then forget it. If it's toward a goal to teach K-12 public school then forget that too. (The same regional accreditors that accredit colleges also accredit elementary, middle and secondary public schools so don't expect them to consider anyone without RA degrees.) If you live in Oregon (or a couple other states that get less press on the issue) then forget about utility even in the private sector.

If the only justification or utility is to yourself or a nebulous goal such as "this program could help me write the Great American Novel" then knock yourself out and go for it. In those cases you don't need to impress anyone else unless generally impressing others is your goal. ('Course if that is your goal then consider studying Psychology, or better yet skip the UA degree and spend the cash on counseling.)

On cost:

Cost can't be dismissed, including with statements like "full RA accreditation is worth whatever it costs". That depends not only upon expected ultility but also factors such as where the degree seeker currently is in his/her career, how much transferable post-secondary education they have already completed, their current income level, total savings and investment income, what other sources of funding are available if any, how much debt load they are already carrying, and age of the degree seeker including an estimation of productive working years remaining. They could also factor in projected earning increases as result of newly completed degree(s), but those are projections rather than guarantees.

Bottom line is nobody wants to end up cashing their pension and/or Social Security check and then turning right around and writing that month's check for a student loan payment. Anybody who puts themselves in that position can't justify the cost of their education as an 'investment' except on a personal level since on a financial level it's a net loss. Unless they plan to continue working full time until they drop, but that depends not only on their current age and future ability but also on retirement attitudes/policies in their particular industry. (Ex. How many octogenarians are working in IT?)

If one wants any conventional utitlity and is sure specific unaccredited work will transfer to an accredited college, and it's far less costly than a typical accredited college, then cost-conscious students could hardly be blamed for using that route. Of course unnaccredited work could also be used as CLEP prep for obtaining legitimate credit, but there are far less costly ways to do that than obtaining unaccredited degrees.


On a side note:

There is tremendous but as yet unrealized opportunity in the unfilled area of truly inexpensive RA degree programs delivered by DL. Ed Direct seemed to realize that and achieved regional candidacy with MSA but then voluntarily, and inexplicably, withdrew themselves. It doesn't appear that Ashworth College has ever tried for RA. If either achieved full RA accreditation for their existing programs, added some baccalaureate programs, while still keeping their convenience and all-books-included low prices, then either could easily and quickly increase their business to the point of becoming the biggest DL providers ever seen.

Kit

 

I enjoy Quinn's posts too. Don't often agree with him, but so what? Disagreement doesn't have to eliminate enjoyment as long as everyone remains basically civil and no one takes honest disagreement personally. Quinn's just enjoyable to read, even when he goes on tangents like "well in debating, that style would be referred to as...."

Kit

 

PJF,

'Sokay. I became a QTJ convert a while ago; I think he knows that.

 

Nosborne, does Little Fauss know that you are dancing with Quinn?

 

I can't HELP it! He makes me laugh!

 

Exactly! All the silly tangents into "in debate, that is known as" are not an attempt to bother, but rather to remind that civilized debate attempts to allow two or more people who disagree to do so in a clean, logical, qualitatively neutral manner that doesn't lead to fisticuffs, even if it doesn't ultimately lead to holding hands.

No amount of philobustering on my (or anyone's) part is going to make an unaccredited/accredited degree anything more or less than it is.

Now, since we're able to talk on an "even" field, in terms of civility, I will take the candy in the candy shop and offer an opinion on the topic at hand:

"No, cost is not enough to justify an unaccredited program."

I will qualify my view by throwing in one more word:

"No, cost alone is not enough to justify an unaccredited program."

If there were only two programs on earth, and I was absolutely determined to go for the degree, and those programs were:

1. Accredited school; very low cost; continue with pre-selected advisor's research track, which wasn't quite in my area of interest.

2. Unaccredited school; higher cost; total freedom on research track even if it meant proposing an appropriate advisor; exactly my area of interest.

I'd go for the more expensive, unaccredited option. There is less value (to me, in my frame) to something that is not exactly in my area of interest. The "cost" (to me) of following someone else's research track if it is not exactly what I want to do is higher (although not fiscal).

Especially at the doctoral level, one must be absolutely in love with what one is doing, with a vision about where one is heading with one's research results. To simply follow someone else's research up, if it is not one's first love in the field, just to obtain an accredited degree, is -- to my thinking -- too expensive a proposition. Any higher degree, at least, is not just a ticket, but is a commitment to the discipline.

Now, if one could find a program that was exactly on the research track one wanted and accredited -- and affordable -- then great. And I might also win 30 million in the next lotto draw!

Aside from that, there are other reasons for picking a certain school. Perhaps one believes certain ideals are represented by the school. That might tip a balance in the school's direction, regardless of its accreditation, also. Perhaps one knows people who went there, and one respects those people's work, and hopes maybe that by joining their ranks, one is adding to the place's body of work.

As I said otherwhere, there are just too many variables in all of this -- more than in weather forcasting it would seem -- for me to make a one-size-fits-all proclamation.

 

Hm.

Following the UA track in order to study what you want to study instead of doing what your preselected advisor wanted you to do.

Hm. That's an entirely new one on me.

This actually makes some sense to me IF the goal is to work with a particular advisor in his particular area of expertise. But is it really likely that you COULDN'T do so in the context of an accredited institution?

Hm. There IS "Dr. Duck". If the NZ Brown Teal is your interest, you'd probably do well to study with FN Hayes whioch certainly could NOT be done through an accredted school...

 

One probably could do it at an accredited institution, with enough negotiating. There are other factors to consider, such as, is the particular institution going to take all other factors and say, "Yes, you could do that, and we'll even let you pick your advisor, whom we will consider.... that will cost you 75K. Thank you very much, have a nice day."

In other words, cost can become a factor after the other considerations are taken into account -- not necessarily as a priliminary, but certainly (likely) at some point.

Unless one has money to burn, of course.

 

Bzzz. Wrong again. Dr. Hayes has taught (and may still teach) at the Open Polytechnic of New Zealand.

 

Dr. Duck

Ah. So the point remains valid; it COULD be done through an accredited school.

How did the school deal with the Knightsbridge doctorate, I wonder?

 

Maybe they ducked the issue.

Of course, what we're all talking about are unaccredited schools, not unaccredited garages.

I agree with Quinn--absent any licencing or "time bomb" career aspect--about following one's consuming interest to a UA school if that's the interest-fostering option.

I'm doing that myself with a programme totally disconnected from my career and from my prior (RA) academic interests, and very happily, too. But nothing is at stake by the school being UA, and a couple of particular instructors with whom I wanted to study were available there and nowhere else.

What a lovely, civil thread this is! I love the way this confounds the, uh,...

Carry on, gentlemen.