SCUPS Degrees/Units Now Transferable to NCU

Correction:

Union (Union Institute and University) is not a for-profit college. The fact that Rich often defends fro-profit schools doesn't mean that his alma mater is or has ever been a for-profit university.

Thanks.

 

Isn't it true that when you want to kill your dog, you give it a bad name and when you want to domesticate a wolf, you give it a good name?

 

ROFLMBO!!!! My mind went several directions with that one!!! Point well taken!!!

 

Heel, DesElms. Good Boy.

 

Read the pm I sent ya

 

Yes there is. Its a fact, and I'm not going to bother going on over this just to prove a common fact.

You are incorrect (you like how I imitate your argumentative openings? ). Doctoral programs with more emphasis on clinical skills with more real work experienced instructors have shown to be better at preparing psychologists into the workforce.
In fact, many studies have even found no difference in clinical effectiveness between B&Mmasters level therapists and B&M PhDs. Clinical psychologists from traditional programs are not really trained to use clinical skills as they are in conducting research and studies. Its a fact.

That they are rigorous and time consuming
Apparently, you didn't know that. When you talk about proprietary, for-profit (tax-paying), RA online schools with psychology programs, you know that there are not many. You complained about for-profits' admission standards as evidence that they lack rigor. How can this be if almost all distance institutions that offer psychology degrees are pretty much open admissions? "Not-for-profits" included? APA online programs too? You didn’t give me much of an answer on that which probably means you did not have your facts straight. I’m guessing that proud Simon is not the kind of person that likes to be proven wrong so I know you’re buying time to come up with some comeback.

Once again Simon is confusing the facts : D

 

ROMAN: Yes there is. Its a fact, and I'm not going to bother going on over this just to prove a common fact.

SIMON: In other words you can't!

ROMAN:You are incorrect (you like how I imitate your argumentative openings? ).

SIMON: You are not imitating my "argumentative" openings because in fact you are arguing with yourself not me!

ROMAN: Doctoral programs with more emphasis on clinical skills with more real work experienced instructors have shown to bebetter at preparing psychologists into the workforce.

SIMON: So what is your point other than trying to convince yourself that you know what you are talking about!

ROMAN: In fact, many studies have even found no difference inclinical effectiveness between B&Mmasters level therapists and B&M PhDs.

SIMON: You are again becoming tangential, diffuse and presenting extraneous data that is not relevant to the discussion. The issue you initially broached had to do with a comparison of doctoral level Psychologists not with a comparison of the "clinical effectiveness" of masters level clinicians. Yes, there are studies demonstrating the equal level of clinical effectiveness between master and doctoral level therapists but this is not relevant to the present discussion.

Roman:That they are rigorous and time consuming
Apparently, you didn't know that.

SIMON: I understand that you are attempting to prove your worth. Unfortunately you are actually revealing your insecurity.

ROMAN: When you talk about proprietary, for-profit (tax-paying), RA online schools with psychology programs, you know that there are not many. You complained about for-profits' admission standards as evidence that they lack rigor. How can this be if almost all distance institutions that offer psychology degrees are pretty much open admissions?

SIMON: Quite frankly it is very difficult to follow your scattered, tangential and fragmented points that are not congruent and focused. Try to organize your thoughts coherently and cogently and perhaps we may be able to have a meaningful dialogue one day.

ROMAN:"Not-for-profits" included? APA online programs too? You didn’t give me much of an answer on that which probably means you did not have your facts straight.

SIMON: You apparently are trying too hard to appear to knowledgeable and potent but you are beginning to embarass yourself with sophormoric ploys attempting to goad me into ludicrous arguments and debates. This is small time charlie antics and leading nowhere.

ROMAN:I’m guessing that proud Simon is not the kind of person that likes to be proven wrong so I know you’re buying time to come up with some comeback.

SIMON: I feel sorry for you because if you have to spend so much time trying to prove that I am wrong you are actually revealing how important I am to you necessitating your attempt to "dethrone me". Quite frankly I don't think of myself as being so important but thank you for bolstering my self-esteem.

ROMAN: You don’t say? Gosh! LOL
So you admit that the PsyD is more clinically oriented than the more traditional programs. But you weren’t talking about the PsyDs that are offered at B&M schools to begin with. No, you were comparing professional degrees at distance learning institutions with the more research-oriented doctoral programs at B&M universities. You were comparing quality in terms of instructors’ research and publication backgrounds at distance learning schools and traditional programs. Why do such a comparison when you know that licensure-oriented distance learning programs in clinical psychology are really professional and more clinical oriented degrees?

SIMON: Take a deep breath, organize your thoughts and try to present them in a more focused, relevant and structured manner rather than in the scattered manner noted above. It is very difficult to follow your trend of thought because you have difficulty presenting your points succinctly and in a focused manner.

ROMAN: These are much more research focused programs you talk about. They are very heavy in statistical training and research. They also teach clinical skills, but in my experience, their focus is heavily geared towards research and publications.

SIMON: Your experience? What experience? It is obvious that you have done some reading and have some basic knowledge of the issues but that is all although you are attempting to appear as if you have expertise in this area! Unfortunately it is apparent in your case that a little knowledge can be dangerous.

In addition, since you raised the issue of "my experience" tell us exactly what that is; whether you possess a doctorate or any graduate degree (or are working towards completion of a doctorate) in a clinical discipline as well as work experience in the mental health professions. We're waiting!

ROMAN:It is a common consensus and a fact that professional doctoral programs in clinical psychology focus much more on real work clinical settings.

SIMON: Brilliant revelation! Obviously!

ROMAN:And private schools almost all go this rout. They don't get much credit, but they focus less on prestige and more on teaching clinical skills.

SIMON: You seem to know best ;-).

ROMAN:I take this as a 'yes' then. : ) Congratulations for choosing NCU.

SIMON: You caught me! I confess, you are an idiot!

ROMAN: Finally, something that we agree on.

SIMON: Now you are frightening me! If you agree with me then I'm losing it!

ROMAN:OK. I agree with you here.

SIMON: Oh thank you great "Legend in his own mind" Roman!

ROMAN:See? I knew you were an NCU student! Can't believe you fell for that. ; )

SIMON: Unfortunately you didn't catch me but have gotten caught up in your own web of confusion, vapidity and pointless position that leads to nowhere. Now that is what I call a great use of one's time and energy. Congratulations! You won the debate and now have been crowned Village Idiot :- ) LOL. I will move on with the realization that you are now my successor as the forum's expert on something although I have not yet figured out what that something is.

 

scups - ncu issues

Greetings to all..

If any of you guys would like, I could asked Tony if he would join this group for a little while to answers questions first hand about SCUPS PsyD program and the course requirements. Maybe he could even supply the course outlines and examples of the work he has had to do. Ron Whicker, whom I worked with for many years received his Ph D in clinical Psych from Fielding . I was there throught the whole process. So I got a pretty good look at his program requirments were. He graduated back in 1989 or 1990. He is now a licensed clinical psychologist in NC. He prospered and set up his own consultation firm and did extremely well. He is now doing that part time and is also working on the weekends as a senior psychologist at Cherry Hospital (psych hospital) here in NC. HE is well liked and has execellent psychology skills.

We get together to talk time and again. Tony and Ron compare there requirements. Pretty much the same. Except, Tony is going for the PSY D. Non intersted in research. He did so much research in his master's program at East Carolina University. He wanted to focus on the clinical skills.

Personally, I am interested in a doctoarate degree that focuses on the meat and bones of the profession and just a little research. I had enough research at ECU and UNC CH. Just finished up with bio-statistics at UNC at the end of the past summer session. During my college career, I have taken over five advanced level stat and research courses. Great courses, but do not give me what I want for my profession. I do not want to do research as a major part of my career but would like to participate from time to time. When I choose a doctorate, it will be a professional degree with no research required. Research is better left to the academia as a career with fingers of research reaching into the professional sector. There has to be a partnership for really good research to take place.

Any way, back to the point, SCUPS has a viable and rigorous psych program. I have seen it in action.

Give em a chance. I do believe that scups is going to be moving up on the ladder with the new leadership. Dr. Rocha is very well edcuated and has the business savvy to get things done. RG was just holding them back. Glad he is gone.

 

Hello Robbie,

I don’t question the coursework requirements; don’t feel like you have to put yourself, or your friend Tony, out to defend this on my behalf. There is a set of core courses required of all applied psychology programs (clinical, counseling, school) that was an outcome IIRC of a lawsuit, Coxe v. Mississippi. This is going back a lot of years for me so it’s a little hazy but I think Coxe, a graduate of Southern Miss in either counselor ed or counseling psychology, was denied the opportunity to sit for the licensure exam. I don’t even recall if he got to take the exam but one outcome was a coursework standardization programs follow and licensure boards look for. There are, hmm, like five or six domains: biological bases, cognitive-affective, social and so on.

It looks to me from reading your posts that you have a good grasp on the limitations and closed doors you may face with an unaccredited degree. This is good; it’s important to know the contingencies of our decisions. I didn’t do a very good job of this in my initial program selection.

FWIW, and this is admittedly anecdotal based on twenty years’ training probably a couple hundred psychology interns and practicum students, it seems to me that a lot of the variance on who goes free-standing PsyD v. university-based.PhD is economically based. PsyD students seem to run up sometimes crushing debt loads in contrast with better financial support in university programs. There are a couple of interesting articles about the cost of psychology graduate school by Bridget Murray and John Grohol in the February, 1999 Monitor which is available online.

Best of luck to you and Tony. Feel free to PM me if I can be of any help in your career planning.

David