AACSB and IACBE Accreditation

First I remember the discussion!
But Carlos you are missing the point! It was you who pointed to FAMU. It is unfair and inaccurate not to mention the fact they are currently seeking AACSB accreditation! Of course the fact are not currently accrediated was very evident in your first post. It shows bias and the bending of facts to support your idea(wait am I talking about Fox News..ahh nevermind ). It is unfair to those on this board who are looking for direction who are not as educated about business accrediation as you, to not tell them the whole truth! It may have been better presented this way: FAMU which does not currently have AACSB(but is seeking it) and their graduates fair better than most AACSB schools in Florida.

 

I think anybody that says that AACSB holds NO VALUE is inaccurate. As most will say (and others are misleading that do not), AACSB is most critical with AACSB institutions for teaching. There is debate or a grey area on the value for industry.

In my opinion, as you can see, the others asked for in the original posting are not of deabte, making them at the same caliber as RA in my mind.

Also, just because a school is up for accreditation, doe snot mean they will get it, and though I believe is a good sign that they are trying to acheive, it is a risk. One in which I took, and it worked out for me, but still a risk.

Also - I think some will find one single person or institution that there maybe exceptions for (a professor teaching at an AACSB business school in an org. beh. department, which has a physchology degree and not a busienss degree), but these are exceptions and not the rule (come to think of it, I have never seen a true exception, only those with degrees from other departments), but that is another discussion.

 

I agree with Han, except that I take the more radical position that AACSB accreditation will become de-facto the "name brand" for business education at all levels (bachelor's, master's and doctorate).

From a Canadian perspective, it is a telling sign that Canadian business schools are pursuing this accreditation. Put in perspective, Canadian universities are notorious in their belief that they are among the best universities in the world. There is no RA-equivalent in Canada since there is no such thing as an unaccredited university in Canada. You can only call yourself a university if the provincial government allows you to become one in the first place.

... back to my train of throught.... so, for Canadian universities to actually seek AACSB professional accreditation means that there is a perceived need for it.

AACSB will become the gold standard for business education. Business degrees that are not AACSB-accredited will be viewed as second-rate. Sorry to offend, but the hard truth is sometimes better than a soft lie.

 

What does their reluctantly seeking AACSB now have to do with their prior 30 years of success? Talk about twisting facts, your statement makes it appear that the seeking of AACSB has something to do with their success. Nothing could be further from the truth! Florida International University achieved AACSB in 1986 yet is nowhere near as successful in recruiting for students as FAMU.

True or not?

If you remember correctly, I was the one that referenced the article mentioning that FAMU was seeking AACSB. No attempt to hide it since I found it interesting that the school was being made to go AACSB

The whole point of the FAMU discussion was to backup the contention that most employers don't really care about AACSB. There are Fortune 500 companies paying six figures to graduates of a non-AACSB school.

True or not?

And they were doing this recruiting BEFORE FAMU was told to go the AACSB route.

True or not?

As Han pointed out, there is no guarantee that they will achieve it.

We all realize that AACSB is critical if one wants to teach. Back in 5/31/2005 in the "USQ intends to apply for AACSB accreditation" topic I said:

Now, I consider it misleading to say Grand Canyon University, a for - profit school is ACBSP without mentioning it was a non-profit school when they achieved it!

Just my opinion

 

My readings show a decline in enrollment at MBA programs with the exception of schools like non-AACSB University of Phoenix and Northcentral. It looks to me that Northcentral's business programs are booming. The University of Phoenix has over 200,000 students, and I believe the majority are business students.

Since the majority of these students will go into the business world do you really think they will want to see their degree devalued because of lack of AACSB\ACBSP? Will they support company policies that allow this? I somehow doubt it.

I think as UoP, Devry, and NCU grads (among other non-AACSB) make a larger impact in the business world the value of AACSB will lessen in the real world. And as many in the business world come across the new low ranked AACSB schools those that know about AACSB will be less impressed.

The AACSB itself mentions that the percentage of doctorate graduates coming from AACSB schools is dropping.

Now, will it be better to have a AACSB degree instead of a non-AACSB degree? Of course, IMHO. But I do not think it will make that much of a difference in the real world.

The above is conjecture on my part and comments are very welcome!

When it comes to the teaching route I agree with what you said in topic:

USQ intends to apply for AACSB accreditation

Just my opinion

 

Getting back to the subject at hand, I was told in a conversation with a school official that in 5 -10 years the IACBE and ACBSP will no longer exist due to the recent changes in AACSB rules.

He claimed that it will be AACSB or nothing.

Comments?

 

Talked to one of our Harvard MBA's yesterday. He wasn't exactly sure what AACSB was. When a Harvard MBA doesn't know what it is it makes me think about how much business cares about such.

If you look at the schools who are ACBSP vs AACSB you will find that the ACBSP accredited schools include junior colleges, lower tiered colleges/universities, and trade schools, to include Devry. Looking at the AACSB schools you will not find any junior colleges on the list...at least I never found any. All the top ranked business schools are AACSB.

Maybe AACSB will be the "ABET" of the future. For now it isn't. Engineers, even from Utah State U., know about ABET but a Harvard MBA didn't know about AACSB. This could be a function of licensing, though. ABET and PE go together. There is no licensing for MBA's...although, in the aftermath of SOX it might be a good idea.

Bing

 

I just took a look at ABET's Web site:

http://www.abet.org/why_choose.shtml

I went to the AACSB site and found these state boards or Federal agencies that required an AACSB degree for certification or licensure:



________________________________


Comparing the value of an ABET accredited degree to an AACSB one is stretching the truth abit.

Just my opinion

 

The first thing that comes to mind is wishful thinking.

 

I suspect that AACSB will have more accredited schools in the future. ACBSP and IACBE may have a future, but they will probably have to focus on community college or other niches AACSB's rules have been broaden so that a larger number of schools can possibly qualify. They've become more "mission focused" and less hard line on research. However, AACSB hasn't lowered itself into the community college realm. Time will tell on this.

Regards - Andy

 

I see a future for IACBE with niches of distance-learning and open-enrollment programs. In my mind, the outcome-centered philosophy is a great way to check the quality of a school. A program might admit any turnip-head... but is it actually going to graduate them? Do teachers actually fail students who are not doing the work? Fairly open enrollment standards might indicate low quality... or they might mean that the quality is just as good as a place with higher admission standards. It's hard to tell! That's why outcome standards are a good idea. However, the IACBE needs to get its act together, promote itself more and redesign their rather pathetic website.

 

There seems to be a lot of negativity on this board towards AACSB and I was wondering why this is?

There are currently 504 accredited schools. This is obviously a trend. Next year there will probably be over 600.

Some people think that AACSB-accreditation doesn't matter because it does not pertain to licensure or certification of any sort. This may change. You may see CPA certification required graduation from an AACSB-accredited school that is accredited in accounting.

You may see various management associations like the Chartered Management Institute in the UK or Canadian Institute of Management in Canada that offer the "Chartered Manager" designation as requiring an AACSB-accredited degree.

Once something like this takes off, and AACSB seems to be taking the lead, all sorts of assocations and societies jump on the band wangon and demand "accreditation". Why do you think that many European business schools are shooting for triple-crown accreditation: AACSB, EQUIS and AMBA? It's a hallmark of quality.

HEC Montreal (a Canadian school!) has the triple-crown accreditation... AACSB, EQUIS and AMBA. You know that if Canadian schools are doing it...

 

AACSB and MBA certification

Many professional degree holders take standardized tests after graduation. Examples are the bar exam for lawyers, medical licensing exams for doctors, CPA exams for accountants, or PE exams for engineers.

ICI wants to do the same thing for MBAs. They recently introduced a national standardized exam for MBAs. If you pass the exam, you can use the title of "Certified MBA".

Anyone with an MBA degree is eligible to take the exam, regardless of the degree's accreditation. However, the preliminary exam results suggest that MBAs with AACSB accreditation may do better than other types of MBAs. According to ICI, all of the highest scorers (top 10%) on the initial certification exam were from AACSB-accredited programs.

If MBA certification becomes important (which may or may not happen), and if AACSB programs have the highest pass rates on certification exams (which may or may not prove to be the case), then this could ultimately boost the profile and prestige of AACSB degrees. There is no question that lawyers value ABA-accredited law degrees, or that engineers value ABET-accredited engineering degrees.

 

Taken from the CMBA FAQ Section:

Q: Doesn’t the “core curriculum” vary from school to school?

A: While teaching methods, coursework and specialty focus may vary from school to school, the CMBA is based upon the core curriculum components consistent with AACSB expectations. This core curriculum represents the fundamentals that all MBA students are expected to master.

Q: What areas of study does the CMBA exam test?

A: The CMBA program ensures that MBA students are proficient in subject areas consistent with the four core curriculum areas required of all MBA programs in order to be accredited by the Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business (AACSB)*.
The core curriculum areas are:
# financial reporting, analysis and markets
# domestic and global economic environments of organizations
# creation and distribution of goods and services
# human behavior in organizations.

* The AACSB was not involved in the development of the CMBA nor has it reviewed the exam for endorsement.


Speaks volumes.

 

Value of CMBA?

I wonder what is the value of CMBA? Other than benefiting ICI's bottom line, what do I get for the $330? (exam fee and application, provided of course that I pass the exam). I've never seen employment ads looking for a certified MBA.

The current Association of Certified MBA's directory (available at http://www.certifiedmba.com/directory/CMBA_directory.pdf), lists less than 200 names. Is this certification new? Frankly, I fail to see the value of this credential, unless employers start demanding it...

 

The unfortunate reality is that there is a proliferation of "MBA" programs. Some are good, some lack rigour. Some can be completed in as little as 12 months, some take much longer. Some require a project/thesis, some do not. Some are on-campus, some are on-line. The CMBA cropped up because of a need to verify the abilities of some MBA grads before being hired.

I'm sure that we will be seeing more of the CMBA in the future.

 

Re: Value of CMBA?

The CMBA is new, and its acceptance and value are unproven. It is a private-party certification (not a state-issued license), and so it will not automatically have any value, unless employers learn about it and are impressed by it. This may or may not happen in the future.

Similar private-party certifications have succeeded in the business world. Titles like Certified Financial Planner (CFP) or Certified Management Accountant (CMA) are recognized and respected by employers. The CMBA may or may not succeed as well.

 

I doubt that the State Accountancy Boards will every require that a CPA canidate have an AACSB accredited degree. Just look at the different standards for each states SAB's. Here in Hawaii they changed the standard to 150 SH to sit for the exam, then changed it back to the 120 SH to sit for the exam, but require 150 hrs in order to get licensed. I am not sure the reason for the change back to 120 hrs was made, but from what I see in the want ads, it appears they have an accountant shortage here, so it would not suprise me if there were far less applicants after the change was implemented, to the point the state board was forced to return to the original standard. I am sure the AACSB would love to have the state accountancy boards require you have an AACSB degree, but I just do not see it happening. The exam itself is the gate keeper to the designation CPA.

William Parker

 

Re: Value of CMBA?

A couple of old CMBA threads:

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10949
http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9182

 

I think I am agreeing with both sides here, which is rare for me.

AACSB will become more and more important for academia.

AACSB will not be critical for most of industry.

I think everybody is saying the same thing - anybody disagree with these statements?