Nova Southeastern University

I would like to make it clear that I was disagreeing with you, not agreeing.

Are you suggesting that producing pharmacists, attorneys, osteopaths or dentists is a lower quality pursuit than producing professors? My point was that these fields are not of lesser value, and that they can't necessarily be judged by the same yardsticks that one would use to assess Ph.D. programs in the arts and sciences.

Then what's your beef? If Nova produces competent optometrists, physical therapists and so on, what do you find wrong with these programs?

Oh please. If this individual had really taught for years at that school, don't you think that he or she would have already discussed earning a doctorate with them? Don't you think that the employer would already have expressed their opinion of the Nova program long before the degree was conferred?

Is respect ever automatic? Does a Ph.D. earned from any university ever guarantee full-time employment at the university of one's choice?

What "rights and previleges" are "typically afforded to other Ph.D.s"? I've never heard about this. Do Ph.D.s get discounts at the supermarket? Free airline miles? What?

If you have such a low opinion of Nova, what in the world possessed you to do your own doctorate there? (Assuming that you really did and aren't just a troll.) What field did you earn your Ph.D. in? Clinical psychology, oceanography, CIS, CS, computing in education or dispute resolution?

Since your posts have all concerned Ph.D.s, do you intend your remarks to extend to all of Nova's other doctoral programs? If so, what justifies that? If not, are your condemnations directed at only your particular department (whatever that is) or at all the Ph.D. departments? (What's your problem with oceanography?)

 

Bill,

Nothing like cutting to the chase.
Unless Owl can start backing up his claims I am ready to vote on the troll award.

John

 

O.K. Guys,

If you want numbers then here they are. I hate to deconstruct NSU like this but you seem to disagree with me that Nova needs some areas of improvement (Nothing like polarizing an issue). The figures might lead an external observer to ask himself/herself a few questions. Here are the figures for you. Tom, a bit over-the-top on your reply. I think before you decide to come-apart at the hinges you might want to look at these figures. You will also note that some of this information is only available in hardcopy form from NSU's library. I welcome the enthusiastic Tom to verify these figures.

I mentioned UMI, here are some figures...

NSU Graduates Doctorates 1999: 573 (NORC 2000 study)
NSU Doctoral Dissertations published 1999: 82 - 14% (UMI Digital Dissertations)

Compare NSU to say...

University of Florida 1999: 447 (NORC 2000 study)
UF Doctoral Dissertations published 1999: 407 - 91% (UMI Digital Dissertations)
University of Washington 1999: 521 (NORC 2000 study)
UW Doctoral Dissertations published 1999: 514 - 98% (UMI Digital Dissertations)

Misperception #1: Does NSU have something to hide?

Standard yahoo search (keywords "Nova Southeastern University" "Faculty")

Summary of hits
5 NSU Ed.D. Faculty Members: Olivet Nazarene University
3 NSU Ed.D. Lecturers: Southern New Hampshire University
3 NSU MBAs Instructors: Upper Iowa University
2 NSU MSs Professors: South Florida Bible College and Theological Seminary
1 NSU Ed.D. Professor: California State University Sacramento
1 NSU Ed.D. Professor: Winston Salem State University
1 NSU Ph.D./1 NSU Ed.D. Teachers: Pine Crest High School
2 NSU Ed.D. Lecturer: Columbia Southern University (non-RA accredited)
1 NSU Ph.D. Professor: College of DuPage
2 NSU Ph.D. Faculty: The Center of University Studies (non-RA accredited)
* 1 NSU Ph.D. Associate Professor: University of South Carolina Lancaster

Ok...maybe this set of teachers/lecturers/professors truly get your heart racing but mine is a little unimpressed. The casual observer sees a lot of Ed.D.s., small liberal-arts colleges and a few unaccredited ones. However, I must say I liked the last one.

Misperception #2: NSU Doctorates mainly teach at non-accredited universities, and religious universities. From this brief search on Yahoo I mostly disagree but can see how this misperception has been formulated.

Let's look at some big research databases shall we? (search 1990 to present)

Eric (Education) - Looks good!
Nova Southeastern University 502 hits
University of Florida 679
University of Texas 1472

MEDLINE (Medicine) – poor
Nova Southeastern University 168
University of Florida 1182
University of Texas 44807

ACM and IEEE digital library (Engineering, Computer and Information Systems) - poor
Nova Southeastern University 7 + 4 = 11 citations
University of Florida 330 + 293 = 623 citations
University of Texas 1702 + 1549 = 3251 citations

Misperception #3: Not a lot of research being conducted at NSU although the school of education is holding its own. Unfair comparisons? Yes, but this is how the rest of the world forms a judgment about academic rigor at NSU.

Last but not least, lets look at some actual doctoral dissertations and see what we can glean from their titles. I picked some gems for you.

1."Stratgegic Planning for a Special Library." Ph.D. 1987
2."Using Computers in the College Physics Lab." Ph.D. 1988
3."A Local Area Network Implemented at Everett High School." Ph.D. 1989
4."Voice Mail A Way to Enhance Faculty Office Hours." Ph.D. 1989
5."The Design of OS/2" Ph.D. 1991
6."UNIX the Hidden Language." Ph.D. 1993
7."Computer Application at the Village Mailbox." Ph.D. 1993
8."A Taxonomy of Workgroup Computing Applications." Ph.D. 1995
9."Low Cost Video for Distance Education." Ph.D. 1996
10."A Comparison of the Microsoft Component Object Model with the C++ and Smalltalk Object Models." Ph.D. 1997
11."Revitalizing the Midcareer Computing Technical Professional." Ph.D. 1998
12."A Study of the Attitudes of Management and Employees toward Telecommuniting" Ph.D. 1999
13."A Model for Inhouse Development of Computer-Based Training." Ph.D. 1999
14."Linking Printed Books to Computerized Speech." Ph.D. 1999


If the aforementioned information impresses you then I guess therein lies our disagreement. The good news is that these dissertations have been getting better. The bad new is that there are still people out there who apparently think this is good enough. It isn’t. Rather than regurgitating marketing gibberish, concentrate on those things that really make a difference. Tom, start early on your dissertation, try to publish a few journal articles along the way and work hard to make an impression on the faculty. This will help you get through the program faster. Also, begin discussing with your classmates what we have talked about in this discussion thread. You’ll find people are interested and concerned about these issues.

Owl, Ph.D. (NSU 2001)

 

Interestingly, I seem to remember that NSU tried to improve it's image by having itself removed from Bear's Guide. John Bear chose not to remove it because of the fine quality of the university. Am I correct?

 

You are correct.

John

 

Owl, you seem to have a vendetta against NSU, yet you claim to have a doctorate from them. Why on earth would you invest such time and money into a school that you clearly have no respect for? I'm really curious.


Bruce

 

I'm going to weigh in as if my opinion on this really means something:

I like NSU. There was a time when I didn't, mostly because of the way the former president of the school treated John Bear, but I've always liked the philosophy behind its degree programs, and briefly considered the Ph.D. in conflict resolution myself.


Cheers,

------------------
Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

co-author, Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning (Ten Speed Press)
co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)

 

Originally posted by owl:
O.K. Guys,

I mentioned UMI, here are some figures...

NSU Graduates Doctorates 1999: 573 (NORC 2000 study)
NSU Doctoral Dissertations published 1999: 82 - 14% (UMI Digital Dissertations)

Compare NSU to say...

University of Florida 1999: 447 (NORC 2000 study)
UF Doctoral Dissertations published 1999: 407 - 91% (UMI Digital Dissertations)
University of Washington 1999: 521 (NORC 2000 study)
UW Doctoral Dissertations published 1999: 514 - 98% (UMI Digital Dissertations)
Misperception #1: Does NSU have something to hide?


14% is quite low but you forgot to consider that more than 50% of that number (573) and probably up to 70 % received Ed.D. in varous education specialties instead of Ph.D.
Each Nova Ed.D graduate (in education) is required to complete a practicum instead of a dissertation. Also, submission of dissertation to UMI is optional for Nova graduates.


Standard yahoo search (keywords "Nova Southeastern University" "Faculty")

Summary of hits
5 NSU Ed.D. Faculty Members: Olivet Nazarene University
3 NSU Ed.D. Lecturers: Southern New Hampshire University
3 NSU MBAs Instructors: Upper Iowa University
2 NSU MSs Professors: South Florida Bible College and Theological Seminary
1 NSU Ed.D. Professor: California State University Sacramento
1 NSU Ed.D. Professor: Winston Salem State University
1 NSU Ph.D./1 NSU Ed.D. Teachers: Pine Crest High School
2 NSU Ed.D. Lecturer: Columbia Southern University (non-RA accredited)
1 NSU Ph.D. Professor: College of DuPage
2 NSU Ph.D. Faculty: The Center of University Studies (non-RA accredited)
* 1 NSU Ph.D. Associate Professor: University of South Carolina Lancaster

You can do better, Mr. owl. I am sure that a standard google search will yield more than a thousand hits.


1."Stratgegic Planning for a Special Library." Ph.D. 1987
2."Using Computers in the College Physics Lab." Ph.D. 1988
3."A Local Area Network Implemented at Everett High School." Ph.D. 1989
4."Voice Mail A Way to Enhance Faculty Office Hours." Ph.D. 1989
5."The Design of OS/2" Ph.D. 1991
6."UNIX the Hidden Language." Ph.D. 1993
7."Computer Application at the Village Mailbox." Ph.D. 1993
8."A Taxonomy of Workgroup Computing Applications." Ph.D. 1995
9."Low Cost Video for Distance Education." Ph.D. 1996
10."A Comparison of the Microsoft Component Object Model with the C++ and Smalltalk Object Models." Ph.D. 1997
11."Revitalizing the Midcareer Computing Technical Professional." Ph.D. 1998
12."A Study of the Attitudes of Management and Employees toward Telecommuniting" Ph.D. 1999
13."A Model for Inhouse Development of Computer-Based Training." Ph.D. 1999
14."Linking Printed Books to Computerized Speech." Ph.D. 1999


All the above dissertations seem to have been written by doctoral graduates of Computer Technology in Education (CTE). Why didn't you include the list of dissertations in CS, IS and CIS? I am beginning to believe that your Ph.D. is in CTE.


The good news is that these dissertations have been getting better. The bad new is that there are still people out there who apparently think this is good enough. It isn’t. Rather than regurgitating marketing gibberish, concentrate on those things that really make a difference. Tom, start early on your dissertation, try to publish a few journal articles along the way and work hard to make an impression on the faculty. This will help you get through the program faster. Also, begin discussing with your classmates what we have talked about in this discussion thread. You’ll find people are interested and concerned about these issues.

Owl, Ph.D. (NSU 2001)

The fact is that all dissertations written by graduates in a typical Tier 1 university are not equal in content and quality. Nova is not an exception. The quality of all dissertations from Nova definitely vary.
You have created an impression that will lead one to believe that all doctoral students admitted by Nova routinely graduate. You seem to have forgotten that more than 65 % of Nova students fail to make it successfully to graduation.

 

Bruce,

I really don't have a vendetta against the school. On the contrary, I indeed have a vested interest in seeing NSU improve. There are a lot of positive things happening at NSU right now and I would love to see this trend continue. There has been an honest effort by the administration to improve its condition and overall reputation among academics. My main assertion is that academic standards need to be raised. NSU needs to be more selective in the students they admit. I also believe that all departments must adopt the same set of graduation standards for Doctoral students. For example, the School of Oceanography has more rigorous doctoral graduation standards than the Business School and the Business School has more rigorous standards than does the School of Computer and Information Sciences and its standards are higher than the school of Education etc... Also, NSU typically hires its own graduates. While doesn’t bother me it is poorly received by other schools. The school must diversify its faculty. Why doesn’t the school promote academic excellence among its graduate students through departmental sponsored competitions or tuition scholarships? Why not offer research assistantships and more teaching assistantships? I’ll be the first person to defend NSU from its harshest critics. However, I will not stand blindly by and watch while a school with so much potential and exciting future wallow in its self-absorbed back-patting over its cutting-edge distance-learning curriculum while it waists an opportunity to catch a leg up on its competition and improve its academic reputation.

Owl, Ph.D. (NSU 2001)

 

Hear hear. On this we can all agree.

 

Ike,

Remember the NORC study included all doctorates from every school. The U of Texas and U of Florida numbers also include professional degrees.

Also Ike, if you had access to the dissertation database you would know these Dissertations are from Ph.D.s in Computer Science, Computer Information Systems, Information Systems, and DCTE. They were random samples. There are more of similar quality if you would like to see them.

Point of clarification Ike - if you really ever attended NSU as a doctoral student you would know that the drop-out rate is much higher than 65% instead more like 95%. As you know the school will not give specifics. Of the 150 students that I started with, only 3 graduated within stated minimum period.

Only the facts Ike!

Owl, Ph.D. (NSU 2001)

 

Owl,

I am not sure what we are to glean from the dissertation titles as to the quality of the dissertation. You may find the following titles of Harvard dissertations amusing:

1.) A Study of a Western Rural School District : Elkhead 1900-1921, Harvard 1986
2.) Vicious commerce :
African American women's sex work and the transformation of urban space in Chicago, 1850-1915, Harvard, 1999
3.)Multiscale simulations of indentation, Harvard, 2000
3.)"Save one of those high-up jobs for me" :
shared decision making in the day care center, Harvard, 1990
4.) Formal procedures and informal influences : assessing a college president's performance, Harvard, 1986
5.) A model of student persistence in college, Harvard, 1986
6.) "The same things done differently" :
a study of the development of four foreign language teachers' conceptions of practice through an in-service teacher education program, Harvard, 1991
7.) How elementary teachers use computers, Harvard, 1990

And the list could go on.... I may find these titles amusing or "fluffy" but they do not reflect the quality of the dissertation.

On UMI publication do not forget that this is a voluntary process.

In medicine I easily found 197 citations for NSU in PubMed, a database from the National Library of Medicine which includes MEDLINE. Also, NSU has only been NSU since 1994. When looking for citations against the Univ. of Texas only 663 citations were produced since 1994. The University of Florida produced 352 (819 if pre-1994 is also included). Because UoT and UoF are larger schools than NSU we would expect greater publication due to a greater number of faculty. Comparatively, with its smaller faculty NSU seems to hold its own.

In a previous post you said to compare NSU to "any" database. Now that this has been done you can see that NSU holds its own as it is in more than one database. I haven't had the time to go and look more deeply into your computer and info sys analysis. Anyway, it is good to see you doing some research.

Rather than a thrust or parry on these issues let's see what NSU reports. Located at NSU we find at http://www.scis.nova.edu/Common/Catalogs/nsu_in_brief.html

-------------------------------------------
"The success of NSU's programs is reflected in the accomplishments of its graduates among whom are:

1. Thirty-nine college presidents and chancellors

2. More than 100 college vice presidents, provosts, deans, and department chairs

3. Sixty-five school superintendents in 16 states, including nine of the nation's largest school districts

4. Hundreds of college and university faculty members nationwide

5. More than 100 high-ranking United States military officers, including admirals and generals, and business presidents, vice presidents, executives, middle managers, and researchers at companies such as American Express, Ameri-First Bank, AT&T, BellSouth, General Electric, GTE, Harris Corporation, IBM, Lenox China, Microsoft, Motorola, Nortel, Sun Microsystems, Westinghouse, and William Penn Bank."

----------------


John

 

Owl,

This post changes the topic. Let's say NSU needs to improve its academic standards. Alway a nice thing for any university to do. As a basis to start this discussion how do you know that there is a variation of standards between the various schools at NSU. What makes SCIS better than Education but worse than business for example? What standards do you want improved other than admission?

John

 

Okay, I can respect that opinion, especially if you have the NSU Ph.D. that you claim you do (the key word being *if*).

However, you didn't answer my original question, which was: Why would you put forth the time, effort, & money to earn a Ph.D. from a school that you clearly don't respect? It just doesn't make sense to me for someone to publically trash their alma mater, especially if it's a legitimate school (which NSU clearly is).


Bruce

 

Ike Okonkwo has completed nearly all of his NSU doctoral program and, unlike you, has demonstrated as much.


Cheers,

------------------
Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

co-author, Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning (Ten Speed Press)
co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)

 

While Nova Southeastern University specializes in things like dental D.M.D.s and pharmacy Pharm.D.s, they do offer a few Ph.D.s. Our "Dr. Owl" has suggested that these programs are the laughingstock of American higher education.

One of Nova's Ph.D. programs is in oceanography.
http://www.nova.edu/cwis/oceanography/

Somehow it has managed to receive support from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) to create and host the Congressionally funded National Coral Reef Institute, a national scientific resource for study of these features.
http://www.nova.edu/cwis/oceanography/ncri/index.html

Nova Southeastern University is also a partner institution in the Office of Naval Research's South Florida Ocean Measurement Center. The U.S. Navy apparently hasn't been informed that Nova is hopeless, since they seem to have a pretty good impression of the school. The Nova Southeastern University Oceanographic Center shares a site contiguous with the Navy's South Florida Test Facility, BTW.
http://www.sfomc.org/ http://www.sfomc.org/nsu.html

Here's a bunch of other stuff they are involved with:
http://www.nova.edu/cwis/oceanography/programs.html

Nova's Oceanographic Center manages to host some very credible sounding scientific research projects:
http://www.nova.edu/cwis/oceanography/research.html

Finally I should point out that while it doesn't offer any distance education degrees, the NSU Oceanographic Center does offer several DL courses:
http://www.nova.edu/cwis/oceanography/disted.html

 

I have tried both Nova Southeastern and Capella for Doctoral level studies.

I began with Capella (back in the graduate school of America days), and then decided to transfer to Nova when I moved to Atlanta, and joined the Atlanta cluster site.

After three courses with Nova, I am back at Capella, and happy with my decision. THis is in spite of the fact that Capella may not be as well regarded as Nova.

Why?

Although initially impressed with my first professor, the other two in weekend classes were well credentialed, but simply awful. The classes were in a bad location, and were largely a waste of time (with the exception of the first one).

Also, the orientation from the head of the doctoral program was very dissapointing.

finally--I travel internationally a lot, so the weekend format classes were a real problem.

Anway--I am impressed with how far Capella has come in my one year hiatus--and I am sure there are many that will thumb their nose at it--but it works for me, the quality is definitely there, and I find it to be at least as an effective an educational delivery system as Nova--and perhaps somewhat better.

 

Originally posted by owl:
Ike,


Also Ike, if you had access to the dissertation database you would know these Dissertations are from Ph.D.s in Computer Science, Computer Information Systems, Information Systems, and DCTE. They were random samples. There are more of similar quality if you would like to see them.


Yes, I have access to SCIS dissertation database. I do not believe that the list of dissertations you posted is a random sample. To prove that you intentionally selected dissertations with unpleasant sounding titles, I will provide the link to the rest of SCIS dissertations. The link is http://www.scis.nova.edu/NSS/pdf_documents/DissertationsList.pdf
Let the forum members be the judge. Owl, you should also note that the title alone does not determine the quality of a dissertation. The title of my dissertation (which is still in progress) is "An Investigation of the skill sets needed by Information Systems Managers to Cope Effectively with the Transition from Legacy Systems to Client/Server and Internet Environments". When it is ready, I will submit it to UMI. What is the title of your dissertation?


Point of clarification Ike - if you really ever attended NSU as a doctoral student you would know that the drop-out rate is much higher than 65% instead more like 95%. As you know the school will not give specifics. Of the 150 students that I started with, only 3 graduated within stated minimum period.

Only the facts Ike!

Owl, Ph.D. (NSU 2001)



I am a Nova Ph.D. candidate. Why do you think that the drop-out rate is about 95% (this percentage is high)? Isn't it because of the difficulty that most students encounter during the dissertation phase? If your answer is yes, it follows that your argument that Nova is running "soft" PhD programs is leaking water.
I will ask you again. Who are you?