PhD, Interdisciplinary, distance, & flexible

Thom:

Please don't think that I am dumping on St. Clements because it is unaccredited (although you might look at the threads on this board regarding this school).

I looked at the St. Clements listing of faculty on their Web site (http://www.stclements.edu/facprof.htm), and the faculty specialties listed are distinctly unhelpful for what you want. The fields list are: social anthropology, management services, business management, pyschophilosophy, leadership, electrical engineering, architecture, physics, information technology, applied politics, media studies, industrial economics, mechanical engineering, human resources management, psychology. Not a humanities specialty in the bunch.

The PhD is the most specialized type of degree. It requires guidance by specialists in the field of your studies, if not on your exact topic. Even if they found you a person to study with, they clearly don't have the kind of institutional apparatus you would need to do what you want to do at the doctoral level. I'm sure that there are much better choices than St. Clements to undertake doctoral studies in Celtic and/or medieval studies.



marilynd

 

Re: A response from St Clements University

Welcome to the forum, Dr. Wooller. Are you, by any chance, the same Jeff Wooller that, as reported by Dr. Bear based on a site visit, operated (or still operates) Irish International University and 4 or 5 other "universities" from a "tiny office in the back corner of a rundown hotel lobby in London?"

 

Re: Re: A response from St Clements University

This is what makes this search so hard.

If a school collects money and issues degrees after you send them something - anything - I am not interested.

However, at this stage in my life I am also not interested *at all* in being personally tutored in a circumscribed curriculum. While I have pursued 'traditional' routes so far, I am really not very keen on them; I much prefer interdisciplinary approaches and self-designed work to standard stuff (which, incidentally, is also why I think the doctorate-upon-Publication might actually be the best choice for me). We homeschool our children because of our disgust with 'institutions,' and I tend to be the person at College who lives by the "Forgiveness is Easier than Permission" rule

Again, lots to think about...thank you all

 

JD a doctorate?

Put your asbestos suit on as I have some problems with your post.

1. No, quite frankly, a JD is not a doctorate. THe JD replaced the LLB with little or no variance in studies and can be finished with less than 3 years of study past a bachelors degree. In some instances no undergraduate degree is required. Also, since no undergraduate study of law is required to pursue a JD at the end you may have only 3 years study in the field of law. Not exactly an appropriate timeline or depth of study for a doctorate. For those who like to compare it to an MD, an MD does require some prerequisite undergraduate preparation and is a 4 year program followed by an internship. Much more appropriate to being called a doctorate. Wikipedias comment on it is below:

Wikipedia - Juris Doctor

J.D. is an abbreviation for the Latin Juris Doctor, also called a Doctor of Law or Doctorate of Jurisprudence, and is the law degree typically awarded by an accredited U.S. law school after successfully completing three years of post-graduate law study. Generally, a 4-year undergraduate degree is required to be eligible for entry into a J.D. program. J.D. is a pre LLM studies not equivalent to a PhD or MBA. Addressing a J.D. as "Doctor" in any means leading to confusion and misleading may be an ethical issue.

History
The J.D. was formerly known as the LL.B. in most U.S. universities, and was changed to confer an equivalent professional status found in other American professions (i.e., medicine, dentistry, etc.). The LL.M., "Master of Laws", is a post J.D. degree (similar post professional doctorate programs at the master's level can also be found in dentistry and veterinary medicine). Doctors of law who are admitted to the practice of law often append the suffix Esq. to the end of their names, but are not commonly referred to as "Doctor". (While the Juris Doctor is a professional doctorate, similar to the Medicinæ Doctor (Doctor of Medicine), legal convention has not universally accepted the use of such title among lawyers in the U.S.) Other graduate law degrees such as the Doctor of Juridical Science (J.S.D.), Doctor of the Science of Law (L.Sc.D.), and the Legum Doctor or Doctor of Laws (LL.D.) confer the academic and social title of "Doctor," but is rarely used by practicing lawyers in the U.S. The exception to practicing U.S. lawyers using the title of "Doctor" involves those holding other doctorates outside of their fields (i.e., M.D./J.D., Ph.D./J.D., etc.).

2. You wish to get a doctorate in Medieval Studies without any prior study in the field at an undergraduate or graduate level? Good luck finding any decent program that will take you on those terms. Those advising you to look at South African programs are misleading you as you will need prior academic preparation in the field. Publishing can provide you with an opportunity to get a degree but that is almost always reserved for people with some study in the area or for holders of another PhD.

 

That suggests that you probably need to emphasize things that strengthen your reputation and avoid things that cast doubt on your judgement.

Suggesting that you have no formal education in the subject that you propose to do your doctorate in. What is your background? Reading and independent study? Have you taken courses on a non-degree basis?

Why do you want to acquire a Ph.D.? What would the degree give you that your previous studies haven't?

I think that your first step should be to clarify your motivations. I'm in that situation myself, actually. I've done one MA and don't care to collect more of the things. I have a number of deep academic interests and definitely want to keep studying. But I can't really justify the cost, time and frankly the hassle of earning a doctorate, if it is only going to be a vanity degree.

So why not investigate your topics and write about them without the degree objective?

I can agree and sympathise with the cost aspect.

But I think that if you are really serious, you could find time to do some short periods in residence. Everything worth doing involves sacrifices and you have already told us about your study vacations. Well, take some study vacations to the university where you are doing your work.

The thing that most concerns me is your refusal to take classes. Coupled with your apparent lack of previous formal education in your subject, that could be a serious problem. You might be able to do everything on a tutorial or mentoring basis, but you are going to have to do something.

If you don't care about academic standards, then why do you care about the resulting degree? Why not simply study on a non-degree basis?

Even substandard universities are useful as non-degree, non-credit sources of education, if you truly believe that you are getting something valuable out of them. But the degrees that they grant are questionable by their very nature. Boasting of one might conceivably end up damaging your reputation.

I'd suggest using the search function on top of the page. Do a search for 'clements university'. (Search won't take two letter words.) It generated 38 different threads about St. Clements, some of them rather disquieting.

Others have already addressed that one better than I could.

Please don't put troll-bait in your posts.

I think that you have three broad options:

1. First, earn a real Ph.D. This one is going to involve sacrifices. You will probably have to do some preparatory work, perhaps a lot if you have no formal background in your subject. You will probably have to pay more than you like and you will probably have to make some visits to your campus. Most importantly, the workload and commitment that it will demand from you will be intense and life changing.

2. Just get involved more deeply in your subject without having a formal degree objective. Join professional organizations and be as active as you can. Meet people. Take individual classes. Write something and try to get it published.

I would include earning a bachelors or masters degree in this middle category as well.

This option has the disadvantage that it doesn't stroke the ego like sporting a cool doctoral title. But it has the advantage that you can adjust your involvement to your own circumstances and desires. Do as much or as little as you like.

3. Obtain a questionable credential. This one seems to me to have very little to recommend it. It won't improve your reputation among Celtic history scholars, and it might make people question your judgement.

 

Re: JD a doctorate?

Don't worry, I'm prepared.

Well, what you think, and what your arguements are, and their theoretical and historical basis are interesting...but that's about all the import I can give them. Since my regionally accredited, public-affiliated university-system College considers it a Doctorate, and pays me based on a pay scale that gives me points for that Doctorate...the opinion of the anyone else is really quite insignificant to me.

Oh, and I wouldn't ask you to call me "Dr." You may address me with an "Esq." at the end of my name though, if you like

My, presumptuous fellow, aren't you? Please point out the post where I indicated such a dearth of background. And in any event, I have stated several times that I prefer an Interdisciplinary Degree, actually.

 

Presumptuous?

If I am presumptuous it is only because your stated academic background contains nary a peep of an indication you have an undergraduate or graduate background in history. Not exactly on the up and up if you fail to disclose them and then ask for advice or an opinion. Being coy is more appropriate for your students than for you.

The term "Interdisciplinary degree" refers to the topic being researched not your academic background. Using the term "interdisciplinary" does not relieve one of the obligation of having some demonstrated background in the field. You really should know this as a professor at a "regionally accredited, public-affiliated university-system".

The pay scale at your school is of no consequence to the status of your academic credentials.

 

Re: Presumptuous?

I don't understand the accusatory, nasty nature of your comments. You don't know me from a hole inthe ground, and yet you have all these suspicions about my simple - perhaps naive - question. Since when is it not on the up-and-up to disclose all my credentials? Who the hell are you that you should require them of me? I wasn't interested in proving myself to you, I was asking some simple questions about the possibiities I was considering, that's all.

I also have Ordination in a recognized minsterial association. I didn't bother telling you that. I speak five languages, but didn't tell you that. I have taken courses at the Gaelic College in Nova Scotia, but didn't tell you that. There's a lot I didn;t say, because I'm not out to prove myself to anyone. I asked some simple questions.

What is it about the Internet that brings out the worst in some people?

It is to me

I suppose you view 'academic credentials' in an incredibly narrow sense, in the puffy-chest, self-absorbed self-proclaimed Researcher style who couldn't give a sh*t about the students except as gophers for asembling published articles, eh?

Well, given your brash and presumptuous post, I can tell you that I know some people who have never graduated high school who have better Social Credentials than you do.

Why don't you find a thread to post on where you can show off your Wonderfulness?

 

Re: Re: JD a doctorate?

The JD and MD are professional doctorates, and not research doctorates designed to prepare entry level professors for a wide range of research and pedagological activities. Thus, reading lots of books is not the same as being required to write a scholarly book, and launch a teaching/publishing career...

Dave

 

Get over yourself

You come on here and say that a JD is frankly a doctorate. You ask for advice and when I point out the futility of what you are asking based on your stated credentials you imply there may be more to your story. Courses, how many and why didn't you mention it since it directly applied to your question? Lets be honest here, what you want is a doctorate without the years of work that go into getting one. You are only slightly better than the myriad of persons who come on this board wanting something for nothing. PUHLEASE!!!!!

Oh by the way mister pompous, I have actually been to Keltheim, Wurzburg and St. Gallen and I never graduated from high school, either. You know squat about me but feel free to call names. I lived in Europe for 12 years so I would imagine I could tell you a little about it. The opinion of some troll on a board is of no account to me. That of my fellow citizens who know me is worth something and I have no failings in that area. Just what is it that makes you think I am an academic? I am not, but the classes I have taught were well reviewed both by my peers and the students so spare your blind opinions.

Done with you.....

 

Re: Get over yourself

Thank God. I hope you mean it.

 

Re: Get over yourself

Perhaps he awoke one morning in an industrious mood and realized that he holds a position for which he has little relevant academic training...

Dave

 

Re: Re: Presumptuous?

You told us about your BA in economics and about your JD. You told us that you want to do a Ph.D. in what sounds like medieval history. Then you asked us to recomend some programs for you. (You actually asked us to recommend substandard non-accredited programs and refused to consider either residencies or coursework.)

Well, modifying the question to address credible doctoral programs, your background in the subject that you propose to study is obviously relevant, even crucial. You can keep the nature of your previous study of medieval history secret if you like, but if you do, then don't blame us for not taking it into consideration.

I'm still curious why you want a Ph.D. in the first place.

If it's just vanity, then something like the above description probably applies to you. If you are looking for opportunities to study your subject in more depth, then there are probably better ways to accomplish that than acquiring a doubtful doctoral degree. If you want a professional credential (you already told us that you don't), then you need to concentrate on programs that are recognized by the scholarly and academic communities.

 

It's obvious gentleman....

He indicated he would like to write some books and I don't think it any great leap of the imagination that he wants the additional street cred that comes with having the book written by a "Dr.". However, he doesn't want to have to work too hard to get that recognition....

I wasn't going to bring that up. But it is readily apparent that he probably does not teach in SACS area of responsibility.

 

Re: It's obvious gentleman....

That is so incredibly wrong. You know so little about me. I would never even use the title, "Dr." To me, "Dr." is something you reserve for Medical Doctors. I find that academics who use "Dr." are rather pompous. Ironically, of the three felow business faculty here who have Doctorates, *none* of them use the title Dr. It's simply seen as an ego thing.

Even if earned, I woudn't use it. That's why I'm sitting here shaking my head, wondering how bitter and suspicious a person you must be that you can assign all these hidden motives.

The more I hear people like you talk, the more I actually would get a 'substandard' degree if for no other reason than to become a proponent of 'substandard' degrees as a viable alternative.

It might help to know that as an Economist and a Libertarian to boot, I am *very* suspicious of tight 'professional entry' requirements, and how it restricts entrance and raises the 'price' of those already in. I am reminded that Chiropracters were once called quacks, and marvel at how black hairdressers in California need a cosmetology licence simply to work - even though the required coursework does not cover issues peculiar to black hair attributes.

And so, when people attack for no reason, my gut says, "Gee, you ought to do it, write something famous, and give credit everywhere to the 'substandard' college just so the shit-marble crowd can have something to suck a lemon over.

I am one of 6 teachers in this state's university system who has refused to join the union. My wife and I home school our children and highly recommend it.

In any event, you're a liar. "I'm Done with you" lasted about 4 minutes.

 

It lasted longer...

Was the post to you? You should have realized my post wasn't to you, it was to Bill and Dave. Of course, now I guess I am a liar because I have responded to you, so be it.

Why are you still hung up on the doctor thing? The original disagreement was over your assertion a JD was a doctorate not whether or not you call yourself a doctor. I can see now why someone with a JD is an econ professor. You have real difficulty following a line of argument. That would be a problem for a practicing lawyer.

Why am I not surprised you are suspicious of tight entry requirements? Most mill purveyors claim the same thing. Your words indict you more and more as you go on.


Bitter? Yeah right, just wondering at the never ending audacity of those who persistently seek the easy road. BTW, I am done with you now so you can quit shaking your head. However, I may feel free to respond to others in the future...

 

I seek no easy road. I would not embarrass myself that way. Once again, your presumption and arrogance based on nothing but a some heated paragraphs back and forth is most astounding. If you were a Judge, we could clean out several years court backlog in a day.

My litigation skills are just fine, thank you. I happen to *like* working with my students. It is a far better thing to do than to grow into a bitter, suspicious, paranoid old man.

 

Re: A response from St Clements University

Are you the Jeff Wooller discussed in Bear's Guides?

 

Re: Re: It's obvious gentleman....

I suppose my point is that MDs seem to have "hijacked" the title "Dr." and are really not "doctors" in the academic sense and outside the clinical setting; they've read a lot of books and mastered a discipline, but they are not trained to perform a wide range of research and pedagological tasks. To afford JDs the same status as MDs stretches the doctoral metaphor even further...

Dave

 

Second time...

Rich I think that is the second time that question has been asked. Maybe he is ducking the question....