Detc

I would just like to throw in a little support for Richs Utility argument. While I do believe there are many DETC schools that are acedemically superior I have found a few things:
Both my employers of the last two years have been very clear that they will only give tuition reimbursement for RA schools, and both have indicated that RA degrees are the only degrees acceptable to them.

In my search to finish my BS degree I have found almost any college I have talked to has told me my AAS has to be from a RA accredited community college in order for me to get transfer credits.

So whether right or wrong my experience has been that less than an RA school has some utility issues.

 

This seems like an all important point to me. All the people crying turf wars, RA monopoly, accusations of "RA or the highway", etc. don't seem to grasp how relatively tiny and insignificant DETC is in the higher education system of this country. It's a tempest in a teapot.

Years ago when there was even smaller attendence at DETC it might have been a little different when there were few RA DL opportunities. That is no longer the case. I even question how survivable DETC is in the long run (for general liberal arts type studies) as the dual pressures of secondary utility and RA greater acceptance of DL squeeze the DETC base institutions.

 

The issue and false claim was that DETC degrees had utility equal to RA. This is a different topic from the quality of education. Which is even further removed from relevance when talking about one specific rather small univiersity.

 

Rich says: Can you point out any situation where a DETC-accredited degree is acceptable but an RA one is not? I ask that question all the time, but no one ever comes up with one. Can you?

Me: I have made the case before. I never made a blanket argument, though. What I did say is that DETC degrees would likely fare better than TESC degrees in law school admissions. I have been through the law school admissions process, and I know what law schools expect applicants to bring to the table.

A respectable GPA is one of the most important parts of the equation. Visit www.lsac.org or call your local ABA approved law school to find out just how important. A TESC degree, based largely on test credit and consisting mainly of P grades, could make law school admissions slightly more difficult. Otherwise, I agree with your utility argument.

Rich says: But what you ask is to have someone else take up your desired advocacy. That isn't fair. Is anything I post incorrect?

Me: Maybe not. I just think people here could make a difference if they chose to. I am guessing that many could speak out against unfair transfer practices and be taken seriously. Experts like you, and Dr. Bear, etc. could possibly help bring about voluntary change. Of course you don’t have to defend your fellow non traditional learners, but it would be nice if you wanted to.

I am convinced that RA schools are looking down the barrel of forced change (via HR 4283) because not enough people involved with RA programs voluntary spoke out against the unfairness in the first place.

Rich: Sorry about that, but you made your choice. Don't expect others to rally to your side to support it.

I am not the one who needs support. I made a choice to attend an ABA approved law school. My goal in life is to practice law, and I am only about a year away. I will never need to rely on a DETC or other distance education credential, but others will. Many of these students have worked just as hard as you and I, and do not deserve to be treated unfairly.

Don’t rally to their side if you don’t want. You are under no obligation. But when the nation becomes flooded with DL degrees, you’ll be singing a different tune if traditional learners decide not to stick by your choice of schools.

Rich says: Try this one: what is the school with the second largest number of complaints? And please provide your source for the UoP number, or perhaps we can reject your claim as baseless?

Me: Other schools with high complaint numbers include FMU (ACICS), AIU (SACS) and PCDI Ashworth (DETC). Check the Better Business Bureau (www.bbb.org) and Rip-off Report (www.badbusinessbureau.org) websites for more details.

 

What use is a DETC degree?
I mean, if the valued accreditation is RA, what would be the use of a DETC accredited degree? are they of any use in the private job market, what about the government jobs?
Can the DETC degrees be converted or used as transfer for European or other countries degrees?

if the answer is no, then what's the use?

 

And in many more cases it is not transferable. That makes it less useful and that is the big deal.
Jack

 

Fairness or unfairness in the utility of DETC versus RA degrees is getting out there. Then even a further step out there is trying to place blame and guilt on others for not speaking out on the unfairness.

DETC is a very small subset of the graduates. It is going to be important if you're a DETC graduate but it might mean that you have to break new ground. For example, a foreign school system might have to be convinced to accept the DETC degree. I'll be surprised if this law passes and if it does I predict that it will do little to change anything because I don't believe the issue is discrimination. I believe that it has more to do with people not being aware of DETC. The law isn't going to change that.

 

Hmmm,

Unfortunately Ray has put forth a number of untrue and misleading statements in this thread. CCU, while an accredited school, is certainly not equal to RA schools. IS it the right choice for some? Certainly. Especially those interested in a vanity degree. On the other hand its value in academic and business circles is likely to be limited at best. I applaud their choice to finally tighten up their requirements and become DETC accredited. It certainly increases their value from their long-time unaccredited stance.

As to Ray's attacks on RA schools they are nonesense. RA is the U.S. standard. Name the top 10, 50, 100, 200 U.S. universities. They are all RA. Can schools with other accreditations be valuable? Yes, but a student runs the risk of limiting their future choices and employment. Despite that, these schools are the right choice for certain people in certain situations. Suggesting they are right choice for most people is dangerous and irresponsible.

Ray's repetition of the "Jamestown" mantra. "RA or no way" is simply an untrue dig at posters here. It is one of the few refuges of people unable to see U.S. accreditation clearly. RA isn't the only good choice, but it is the U.S. standard and probably the right choice for most people in most situations.

 

No Matter if You Choose RA, DETC or Nonaccredited, We need to Respect Each Other!

Dear Forum Members,

I don't necessarily mean to criticize universities that are regionally accredited. Obviously RA has been around allot longer that DETC. I guess my biggest complaint is that in the United States we are so resistant to change, and I have a real problem with that philosophy. I am concerned that many distance RA universities are taking advantage of people by charging such high tuitions. Many people can’t afford to attend an RA school.

In essence, education is what you make of it. Several decades ago, before the advent of online classes and correspondence courses the only way to earn a degree was attend a formal university. Modern technology and the invention of the internet has changed our lives, and made information more accessible for the average citizen, who is working full time and raising a family. It allows that individual to earn a degree, so he has increased promotion potential. These changes give people a renewed sense of hope. You can learn about anything your heart's desire online, as long as you have the intelligence, motivation and confidence to do so. The degree is just a piece of paper that validates what you have learned..

And now that DETC has been established as a recognized accreditation agency, it validates those programs that had previously been labeled a diploma mill. Until DETC accredited CCU several months ago, they were listed on the ODA website as not meeting the standard for Oregon and were consider by many in this forum to be a diploma mill, thus inferior to an RA degree.

It may take another decade for professionals in the field of education to recognize DETC to be equal to RA, but I believe it will happen. The biggest reason people join this forum is to learn what is new in the field of education, to investigation those institutions who are not accredited, to determine if the degrees being granted are legitimate or merely given for substandard work or no work at all.

Some people that come here are looking for information because they have not had any exposure to distance education and need advice to make a sound choice. And I believe that is the main purpose Degree Info exists.

I feel very disappointed when members who post here become so dogmatic that the try and force their opinions on others. We are all suppose to be professional and should conduct ourselves accordingly, without degrading those people seeking help, I don’t care if you want information on Harvard or Robert de Sorbon, we are still human being with feelings. I can’t stand to see people personally attacked because of a difference of opinion. Like the old saying, “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink”. Everyone who posts here needs to be shown respect. And the more experienced members here to try and give their best advice, and if it is ignored, not fire back with impunity.

DETC degrees are just another alternative that validate their programs have gone through a process of evaluation and found to be sound in quality. Maybe with the current climate, you might not be appointed as a faculty member at a RA institution if you have a DETC degree, but so what. There are many RA universities which accept DETC degrees in transfer to their institutions.

In closing, I would like to see people become more respectful of those who may not agree with their opinions. Thank you.

Sincerely,

 

Dear Forum Members:

Be careful about separating fact from opinion (or wishes). Don't confuse a poster's persistence in posting facts with some agenda that doesn't exist. Understand that the posting of critical--yet accurate--information is not an "attack," nor is it being disrespectful; it is simply the truth. Weigh personal opinions with the interests of the poster--look for agendas hidden and unhidden. They tend to press for concepts that, while important to their personal interests, aren't supported by the evidence. This tends to muddle the point being made. Look for unbiased posts that accept the realities of the world and go with them.

And let's talk about bias for a moment. Forming a conclusion and acting upon it isn't "bias." It's logic. "Bias" comes from sticking with an opinion despite facts to the contrary. For example, I'm not biased against DETC or its accredited schools. I'm a huge fan. I think what they've done to enhance the legitimacy of distance learning degrees has been a terrific asset to the entire field. But it is ignorant to ignore (get it?) the realities regarding the limitations of degrees from DETC-accredited schools. Blasts directed at me and others willing to talk about the truth are unfair and often personal. This is not how academics should act, but there it is.

So, should DETC-accredited schools be among the options the average reader of this board considers when contemplating the pursuit of a degree? Sure! But don't ignore the very real and fundamental limitations involved. And don't let someone's impassioned pleas for you to ignore those realities interfere with your judgment. Make the best choice for you. If that is a DETC-accredited school, then go make the best of it!

 

I would like to again refer people to the following thread which I posted regarding the former graduates of California Coast University. Go through and read each link and tell me if you feel their degrees, even though they were not accredited at the time are worthless. As we now know, their Bachelors and Masters Degrees are accredited now by DETC. You be the judge.

http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=170658#post170658

Sincerely,

 

Re: Go With DETC Accredited Degree!

It actually does matter in many situations.

In my personal situation, I am in upper management at a large company, and it is company policy that we only accept RA degrees. A person with a DETC degree would not get hired.

At this point in time DETC has limited utility in both Academia and Industry. At sometime in the future maybe that will change, but until that time comes you will just have to live with reality.

 

Hi Ray

How many of these people enrolled in CCU AFTER they gained their position or where it was of no benefit in attaining their position? CCU certainly has both positive and negitive attributes. On the positive side, it was an early pioneer in the field. On the negitive, they remained unaccredited decades after their peers earned it. I think its value in academic circles is probably very low. In business, for positions not requiring a degree, it may have some value. For other positions where the degree is a central requirement they are likely to check out any schools they are unfamiliar with. In that kind of case a CCU degree is likely to be of limited value. I do believe CCU has made some positive changes in the last year or so and I hope they keep that direction.

P.S. It would seem your thinking is controlled by your emotions. Just one example of this is your apology for speaking positively concerning KU followed by your apology for your apology It is hard to imagine a true Ph.D. so inclined or so constantly confused and misleading of others.

 

I work for a large entity and we do accept DETC or RA (actually any degree accredited by a recognized accrediting agency). RA or NA no problem but UnA is DOA.

There is less utility for a DETC degree in general. I imagine it has much greater acceptance in business than academia. There are more Masters programs willing to accept DETC and so this may well be changing.

I think much of the time when someone only accepts RA it is out of ignorance (i.e. we thought that was the only type of accreditation). I have seen some DETC programs that appear more demanding than RA and certainly graduates should be proud.

But one must be realistic that there is going to be some lesser utility in some cases. Always check where your end goal is and ensure that it will meet your needs.

I should note that the same warning and utility occurs for graduates of RA doctoral programs that are not bricks and mortar (i.e. DL). You must be realistic about the cost of the degree and what you intend to do with it. When I was planning on completing a RA DL doctorate, I had to weigh all of this. If you want the degree for self fulfillment then it probably works well. If you want the degree to give you a leg up in some industry cases, may work for that. If you want the DL RA doctorate (not bricks and mortar) to get an adjunct faculty position, then probably works for that. But if you are under the illusion that you are going to have an easy time taking your Walden, Capella, etc doctorate and competing for faculty positions at well ranked universities against UT Austin or Michigan grads....well you may find less utility. Same is said for RA PHD's in Psychology from DL situations where the degree is not APA. You will have much (much) more limited utility from it period. You have to weigh it.

These items just means being realistic. With DL in general there can be a negative reaction among those with traditonal PhD's. I will never forget the reaction of two PhD's (one Cornell and the other Texas A& M). At the mere thought that one could earn an accredited RA DL PhD, the A & M PhD (in his 30's) looked like he was going to throw up. He was aghast at the idea. The Cornell grad also in her 30's said "Oh I get it, so you basically buy the degree". I know a guy who just earned an RA Doctor of Mgt degree from University of Pheonix. Collegues were sitting around and laughing saying he was getting a PhD.com and maybe they would just e-mail him an icon so he could print his degree (UofP had residential compenents). Ignorance...sure but you can bet you would get some lesser utilty from the degree were they in a position to have influence over your hiring.

North