Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. day (today)

The point here is after his death.

What source of infomation was available to determine if the dissertation was actually plagiarized? And how soon after is death was it discovered.

You have to remember what was going on around the time of his death, Boston University probably did not want to be in the middle of any Civil Rights litagation and left the issue alone.

 

An interesting thread. I live in South Africa, where a number of significant contributors to the liberation movement have been found to have feet of clay. Also, a number of individuals who fought against democracy in foul ways have subsequently contributed greatly to the re-building of the country.

How to be generally positive about people without being a complete Polyanna and ignoring their flaws? How to acknowledge people's contributions without losing sight of their (sometimes heinous) crimes? Very tough, particularly since people are very thin-skinned about these issues and somoretimes read more into ones skin colour than ones words!

 

Re: I beg to differ with Harris's comments...

Oh come now. As the self-proclaimed leader of an "Army of Encouragers," he can be accused of many things (e.g. being excessively impassioned) but I think "USA hater" is not one of them.

 

White Sale at Sears!!!

There's a great sale at Sears: All the "white sheets" you can grab at a discount!

 

Hi Boogie Rambler: Cut the crap, friend. So MLK was a bit of a poseur and folks notice this. Whatchoo prollem? Of course he was a bit of a poseur. C'est l'Amerique, pal. Noticing this does not make anybody a kluxer (me being slightly brown around the edges wouldn't qualify anyway, but I cope). What other figure among our secular saints has to be above all criticism lest the rotten boudin of "bigotry" be brandished at the critics? Nooobody, mon cap', nooobody. If it's really that upsetting that anybody mention the proven fact of MLK's plagiarism--minor though it is compared to his civic accomplishments--then maybe you'd prefer one of the following replace him in the civic kalendar:

Martin Luther King, Sr. (who wrote his own stuff)
Fred Shuttlesworth (a real hero and another better preacher)
WEB Du Bois (who did not plagiarize his doctorate)
Frank Snowden (greatest black American classicist, who used to correct Du Bois's Greek accents when he worked for the "Crisis" and caught hell for it)
Frederick Douglass (one of the truly great prose stylists of American English, who also wrote all his own stuff)
A. Philip Randolph (who believed in honest work)
or Bayard Rustin (for the sheer jeu d'esprit of it, I s'pose).

If you're that upset about myths being punctured when reality doesn't need them, well, go vote for Earl. He ain't crazy.

 

Re: White Sale at Sears!!!

Because I find MLK Jr's academic record dubious and feel his extramarital affairs cast a pall over his religious calling, does not mean that I find his ideas about the freedoms to which all persons are entitled incorrect or improper.

Is an adulterer less of a physician, less of a musician, less of a chief cook and bottle washer because he cheats on his wife, no. Would one choose an adulterous plagarist to lead a church congregation, most probably not - especially when other suitable candidates are available.

His ideas, at least his publicly espoused ideas, were on solid moral ground.

What saddens me most is the attention paid to this nonsense is as devisive as the prejudices MLK fought to dismantle.

Bigotry still runs rampant in the US, and as well as in other countries in which I have lived. I think a lot of the MLK bashing is an attempt to reconcile within ourselves the bigotry we harbor that we do not want to allow to come to the surface. I truly feel that each one of us harbors some bigotry, however little it may be.

Am I a bigot, of course. I certainly don't propose we reisntitute segregation, adopt slavery, chain people up or perpetrate any of the indignities of the past. But I have certain preferences that may be considered bigoted, If there are several open checkouts in the grocery I will go to the one with the person that is my race. However if there is a line I will go to the shortest line. I don't presume to think that any other group is devoid of bigotry. Programs designed to keep money in one community or another by encouraging people to shop in predominantly black, or Venusian or Martian businesses would too be a subtle form of bigotry.

Many years ago in elementary school the good sisters taught me that the United States is a great melting pot where people from many countries and cultures came together to live in the society closest to the perfect society, free to live, work, and worship as they saw fit. It is sad to see how that is slowly changing as blacks and whites are again becoming more insular in an effort to strengthen their respective communities.

Diversity is now in fashion. I am different accept me.
Perhaps we should concentrate on our similarities.
I love my family, I work to support my family to the best of my ability, I learn to better myself, I believe in the rights of others to do the same. I am similar accept me.

Yes MKL plagarized his dissertation, in the overall scheme of things does it really matter.


By the way I am tired of MKL street, it has been done over and over again. It is now beating a dead horse. How about a Rosa Parks or Frederick Douglas or JW Carver Street. There is more than one black American that has had an impact on our society. If we want to name a street after a notable black person, lets just be frank about it an pick someone who does not have a thousand streets named after them already. Who could argue with that?

 

You mean use street names as a way of teaching Black American history instead of displaying vacant tokenism? Stop making sense, O'Neil, you'll just get in trouble.

 

Boston University appointed a panel to investigate it, and they determined that he plagiarized about 1/3 of his dissertation from another dissertation written by a previous BU student named Jack Boozer. I think it was discovered in the 1980's, and confirmed around 1990-91 or so.

So, in your opinion, it's okay to plagiarize your dissertation as long as the social climate is right? That's a pathetic excuse. The man was an academic fraud, and would have had his degree revoked if he were not so politically correct.

 

So, in your opinion, it's okay to plagiarize your dissertation as long as the social climate is right?

I was commenting not offering an opinion.

That's a pathetic excuse

It was not an excuse! You said it yourself, it would have been revoked if he was not so politically correct . That's the point I was trying to make.

The man was an academic fraud, and would have had his degree revoked if he were not so politically correct

The botton line is that, no one knows the reasons Boston did not revoke his degree.

 

MLK is a mere mortal like all of us but ....

This plagiarism accusation has without doubts provided an avenue for MLK haters and wolves in sheep’s clothing to mete out odious epithet, anathematic appellation, insolent dubbing, and audacious effrontery purposefully to smear, rubbish, and tarnish the good name and image of the late venerable civil rights leader and warrior. Thus far, all arguments that have been put forward by enemies of freedom and racial equality are predicated on highly wanting and inordinate investigations that were carried out perhaps to satiate the despondency and expediency of those who wanted to rewrite history and erase all MLK’s painstaking achievements for the black people and the entire humanity. If Mahatma Gandhi’s life is to be subjected to intrusive scrutiny, I am sure that unpleasant things about him will be extricated. I agree that plagiarism is fraudulent but we also have to be aware of the fact that MLK is no longer alive to defend himself. Why do we have to call him a fraud to make our point? It’s pathetic.

Ike Okonkwo, PhD

 

Re: MLK is a mere mortal like all of us but ....

While what you say may be true, the implication that anyone who points out MLK’s transgressions (they are not, as you state, just an accusation) are meting out “odious epithet, anathematic appellation, insolent dubbing, and audacious effrontery,” nor is there any evidence that the intent is to purposefully to “smear, rubbish, and tarnish the good name and image of the late venerable civil rights leader and warrior.” This is a distance education forum, and, as such, issues of credential legitimacy are frequently discussed.

Once again, I propose to you that the broad brush with which you have chosen to paint anyone who broaches the subject is unjust and undignified.

You may have a point. However, is characterizing MLK as an academic fraud for plagiarizing his dissertation any more or less justified than you characterizing anyone who questions the means by which MLK acquired his doctorate as “enemies of freedom and racial equality?”

 

Re: Re: MLK is a mere mortal like all of us but ....

True, this is a distance education forum. George W’s grades in college were mostly Cs but I am not prepared to denigrate the presidency by referring to the occupier of that exulted office as a dullard only because he failed to make good grades in college. Nether would I refer to him as a butcher for warring with Iraq. If we judge George W. by other things that he has done in life, it will become clear that he is neither a dullard nor a bad man but those who look on at one tinny chapter in his life will readily disagree. Similarly, it is unfair call MLK a fraud because it was “alleged” that he committed plagiarism (a fraudulent). He may have committed a fraudulent act but the word “fraud” should not appear anywhere near his epitaph because to do so could portend that his life was lived in dishonesty and that his works were delimited by deception. MLK was not a con man.

It may be difficult for others to fully grasp my point of view just as it was difficult for many of my friends (please I beg to digress a little) to understand my concerns when Rush Limbaugh was signed up to become a football commentator until I demanded to know how they would feel if Louis Farrakhan were to be asked to replaces Rush. All of them replied in unison that they would either close their ears or stop watching football games completely. Now let’s get back to the point. MLK’s name is one the names that I truly revere. Even if he plagiarized (that’s a different matter), I will neither subscribe nor succumb to innuendoes that are geared towards defaming his good name and distorting his splendid accomplishments. If it weren’t because of his noble sacrifices, I would not be allowed to sit in the front section of buses. If it weren’t because of his noble sacrifices, I would not be allowed to urinate in the same facility as others, I would not be allowed to eat in the same section of a restaurant with others. If it weren’t because of his noble sacrifices, I would not be able to challenge incidences of race-based discrimination.

Like I have stated earlier, plagiarism is fraudulent but even if he was found guilty of plagiarism, we should not describe him as a con man in view if the fact that his life was not entirely lived in dishonesty. His achievements were real and beneficial to mankind. Even if my mother is a whore, the last thing that my ear would entertain is hearing somebody call her a whore. I revere MLK and I will forever consider him a liberator.

Ike Okonkwo

 

"Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."

Good idea 1500 BC, good idea now.

 

MLK was a complete and utter fraud. His life was lived in dishonesty and his alleged "works" were delimited by deception, corruption, and immorality. MLK was a con man on the level of PT Barnum, or Jesse Jackson. Read more here.

 

Ike,

Roget would be pleased.


Matthew

 

MLK is neither God nor a saint. However, he belongs to the league memorable and reputable liberator that includes George Washington, Simon Bolivar, Mahatma Gandhi, and Nelson Mandela.

Ike Okonkwo, PhD

 

MLK belongs to the league of socialist scumbags, like Vlad Lenin, Fidel Castro, and Kim Jong Il.

 

If MLK is a total fraud, what we say about the U.S congress that passed MLK Holiday act and the President (Reagan) who signed the act into law? Are they stupid? Were they conned? Who conned them?

Ike

 

MLK is neither God nor a saint. However, he belongs to the league of memorable and reputable liberators that include George Washington, Simon Bolivar, Mahatma Gandhi, and Nelson Mandela.

Ike Okonkwo, PhD

 

MLK never murdered anyone. To the contrary, these guys that you placed in the same league as MLK are/were butchers. Are we not lucky that these murderes were not born and raised in this country?

Ike