Ranking Accreditation

P.S. Just because Bear and I each conducted research on this topic doesn't mean there aren't many other wonderful viewpoints. Our respective studies were quite narrow in focus and there's so much to talk about. But I guess we can point to them with a grain of authority when it comes to certain debates. So can anyone else.

 

Re: Re: Re: Ranking Accreditation

That is the case for new graduates. (Note that the University of California system is a state university system.) As you would expect, other qualifications besides the degree becomes an over riding factor for experienced hires.

I believe that this also agrees with Dr. Rich Douglas's study that many (most?) HR departments concentrate on schools from the local region.

(Although in the past few weeks they're no longer using our local HR department for new hires instead use headquarters and I'm not yet familar with any changes that this might bring.)

I'm not sure what the final question is asking? i.e., "What about other states?"

 

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What I think Kristie was asking (although I could be horribly wrong), and what I'd like to ask myself is: does your company discriminate likewise with candidates from states outside California?

To take a recent example: assuming your people knew the difference between the various elements of the University System of Maryland would they only recruit from College Park (the flagship school) and UM Baltimore (the professional school) and file applicants from the other nine institutions in the round filing cabinet?

Angela

 

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If I worked in the HR department, I'd probably take great offense at how you used the word "discriminate" here. I don't work in the HR department so I'm only taking mild offense.

Please reread my original post about a hierarchy or continuous spectrum of schools. There is nothing wrong about being "discriminating" about what applicants get hired. This is a normal process. For example, I've heard of law offices that will only hire lawyers that graduated from Harvard Law. I believe that it is very common for businesses to say that they will only hire from the top schools. That is why the graduates from the top schools get more money because there's a greater demand. When I said that a line is drawn at a business and all applicants with a degree from a school that falls below that line is discarded, I meant it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I'm amazed that people think that there is anything wrong with that. Perhaps I misunderstood your point? It is perfectly legal to discriminate in hiring. You are not allowed to discriminate based on race, sex, religion, etc., but the reality is that the vast majority of job applications hit the trash for many other very valid reasons (and invalid but legal reasons as well, I'm sure). A very valid reason is the perceived value of the degree, especially for new hires.

 

First - Yes Angela was right - sorry for the poor wording.

Second - I think it is correct to state that one lower tier school is better than another. Once you get past the top ranked school, I think it is all a wash. If others want to think differently, that is OK,

Third - Hiring by region is just not something I have experienced. The employers I have delt with (given, only about 5 in different parts of the US) do not weigh that if you are headquartered in CA, that all applicants must come from CA. That is what you are doing if you only accept according to a region.

Actually, the top engineering schools are not in CA, so we recruit outside the state.

Question - I would ask, where do you find "unranked" schools, such as State and some UC schools - I did a search in US News and World report educational rankings, and only the top ranked schools came up, and a summary on the unranked schools. I guess it would be strange to think your school who was ranked 256 was better than school 258, maybe that is why they don't rank there.... maybe I am just missing it... maybe that does it for some people, more power to you, I guess.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ranking Accreditation

You completely and utterly misunderstood. It's a classic example of the two cultures separated by a common langauge.

"Discriminate" in the Queen's English (note the location, as well as my occasional comments that I don't speak American English as a first language, which is why I loathe the verbal reasoning sections of such exams as the GRE and the GMAT rather more than most non-native English speakers) *can* mean a choice based upon irrational preference, and frequently does, but the more common meaning still is that of the process or method of choosing.

The question as phrased by me would be the one you answered: given a candidate from a system with a number of levels of college/uni within it (such as Maryland), would you (or your HR department) use the same method to choose between candidates from the different colleges as you would for the California system.

Your reply confirmed what I thought originally, but wanted confirmed: that your HR dept would probably go for the product of the flagship college at the level of the initial hire.

Angela

 

Sorry Kristie, I was apparently unclear about what I meant by hiring from within the "region". What I meant was that the company seems to concentrate their new graduate hires from schools that have been used before. These have a tendency to be local, i.e., Southern California. Although we used to recruit from northern California a lot more before UCSD (in the University of California system) started graduating CS majors. There has been some discussion in the past over whether or not we should hire from SDSU (in the California State University system). As far as I know we've never hired an SDSU new grad.

We only hire new grads from what is considered the top rank schools.

 

Okay, thanks for the responses so far, especially Mr. Douglas for giving a synopsis on this research.

My situation is that I work for a university hospital and I want to get into clinical administration (as in managing a clinic associated with the hospital, usually done by nurses but never stipulated as MSN positions). Therefore, my pursuit of a masters in business or healthcare administration rather than an MSN. HR has firm background on foreign degrees as they pertain to medical students. Nothing is forthcoming on administration positions concerning degree accreditation. These positions are usually hired by the doctors in which the clinics reside, not HR. Our doctors appear to be unknowledgeable about any degree that doesn't say MD or PhD in the title. I know this because I work with surgeons in all areas of the hospital everyday and have asked. They pretty much say they want a nurse that knows how to manage their clinics, period, and don't bother them with the details (I swear, this was actually said to me). The nurse managers I know have mostly BS or BA degrees and got their positions because they "knew" somebody. I'm just trying to get an edge.

With that information, I think you can assume that I don't have to go to Harvard. These clinical management positions pay up to 65,000 per year, maybe small potatoes to some, but big money to me (not to mention would get me off my tired feet).

I'm still trying to ascertain why Columbia Southern University would not work, given this info.

If anyone knows of a MB in Healthcare or Business Management from RA that is under 12,000, has no residency, and has no huge thesis requirement, please respond. Maybe I've looked at too many in the last few weeks. I can't find anything that fits this scenario.

Also, I have over 20 years experience in mid-level banking management prior to going to college to become a nurse at the age of 40 (don't ask, was sick of banking and ready to do something more worthwhile). My college credits are all nursing based at the AAS level. My RA from COSC will be a concentration in nursing/psychology/business managerment. I also own and run my own investment property business with 15 income producing properties as well as buying and selling real estate for profit, so I have some real life business experience equal to any entry level business classes that many programs insist I complete prior to going into a masters, this chaps me. Help.

 

Okay, thanks for the responses so far, especially Mr. Douglas for giving a synopsis on this research.

My situation is that I work for a university hospital and I want to get into clinical administration (as in managing a clinic associated with the hospital, usually done by nurses but never stipulated as MSN positions). Therefore, my pursuit of a masters in business or healthcare administration rather than an MSN. HR has firm background on foreign degrees as they pertain to medical students. Nothing is forthcoming on administration positions concerning degree accreditation. These positions are usually hired by the doctors in which the clinics reside, not HR. Our doctors appear to be unknowledgeable about any degree that doesn't say MD or PhD in the title. I know this because I work with surgeons in all areas of the hospital everyday and have asked. They pretty much say they want a nurse that knows how to manage their clinics, period, and don't bother them with the details (I swear, this was actually said to me). The nurse managers I know have mostly BS or BA degrees and got their positions because they "knew" somebody. I'm just trying to get an edge.

With that information, I think you can assume that I don't have to go to Harvard. These clinical management positions pay up to 65,000 per year, maybe small potatoes to some, but big money to me (not to mention would get me off my tired feet).

I'm still trying to ascertain why Columbia Southern University would not work, given this info.

If anyone knows of a MB in Healthcare or Business Management from RA that is under 12,000, has no residency, and has no huge thesis requirement, please respond. Maybe I've looked at too many in the last few weeks. I can't find anything that fits this scenario.

Also, I have over 20 years experience in mid-level banking management prior to going to college to become a nurse at the age of 40 (don't ask, was sick of banking and ready to do something more worthwhile). My college credits are all nursing based at the AAS level. My RA from COSC will be a concentration in nursing/psychology/business managerment. I also own and run my own investment property business with 15 income producing properties as well as buying and selling real estate for profit, so I have some real life business experience equal to any entry level business classes that many programs insist I complete prior to going into a masters, this chaps me. Help.

 

Yes, professional accreditation bodies exist for computer science and chemistry but there are none for the fields that I listed in my post. Majority of non-professional disciplines don't have any professional accreditation.

Ike Okonkwo, PhD

 

Under $12000

Is difficult. UNA and Brenau appear to cost around $13-$14K sans books which will tack another couple of K on to the cost. That appears to be the floor for RA programs. DETC programs may come in under that but you would need to check to see if that would be workable in your area. The Californiania College of Health Sciences (DETC) has one that may fit your price but it was difficult to determine their cost as they offer ranges. They did have several scholarships which may make it work. It has been my experience with DETC schools that they are much more flexible with cost. My wife's DETC accredited certificate in computer programming ended up costing about half the original listed cost.

 

Amberton University would certainly fit this bill. It is RA. No thesis. No residency. Tuition is $200 per credit hour, and the MBA requires 36 hours ($7200). However, if you do not have the 12 hours of required prerequisites, you are looking at an additional $2400 (still under your $12,000 cap.)

However, Amberton's degree would be an MBA with a concentration in Management. At Columbia Southern, you could get a concentration in Health Care Management. And Columbia Southern has lower tuition and requires no prerequisites.

Given your circumstances, I see no reason why Columbia Southern would not work.

 

Thank you Jeff and Chris. I will look at Brenau, never heard of it. The thing I hate about searching the internet for DL schools is I keep ending up at the U or P advertisements, makes me want to scream. It's like its the only program out there with links, millions of them. I wish I could block them from my computer!!!!!

Is there any way to better decipher the terminology of schools outside the US. I read the websites and I have no idea what their requirements are, they use classifications that I have no idea what they are. Especially South Africa. Is there a website that explains the difference in terminology? Or if I contact UNISA, will they be kind enough to put their lingo in american terms? Thanks again.

 

Another option would be the MS-Administrative Studies degree offered by Southwest Missouri State University. It's a public RA university. Degree is 33 units, follows a course that is "similar" to an MBA, has no undergrad business prereqs and tuition would be about $7,500.

The folks I've spoken with at the university have been extremely helpful and (with permission) you can even take a few courses prior to being formally accepted into the masters program.

If interested, visit: http://graduate.smsu.edu/catalog/gradcollege/msadmstud.htm

Best of luck,
Dan