Touro College-Probation Status

All of teh colleges and universities I have been associated with take their accreditation status seriously. TC is probably no different -- if they are then they will be in trouble. Being put on probation allows the school to rectify problems. Overall I see this as a good thing in terms of the accreditation process. How many W.A.U.C. schools get put on probation status?


John

 

I called TUI and also e-mailed them recently, but have not also received any reply from them. I wonder what is going on with them

 

I have only been onthei forum about a year, but I don't remember any other school on probation..... I do not think it is routine.

 

You are correct Kristie that it is not routine. Actually, if TRACS had probation status (it does not) American Christian College and Seminary would essentially be on it. TRACS does not and has 'show cause' and a 'stay' of revocation.

Probabtion in my opinion means that someone(s) messed up. They now need to correct it. In the case of ACCS it was a lot of administrative ball dropping (as I recall like not getting decisions ratified by the ACCS board, etc). Liberty U was on Probation for being in big time debt a few years ago. A wealthy benefactor saved them.

Probabtion does not mean that a school cannot recover. In the regulatory arena I am in it happens all the time. It depends on the insitution getting it together enough to correct the problem. It would seem simple enough but I have seen institutions bungle themselves to revocation.

It is rare that a school loses accreditation but it does happen. Just like it is rare that a school granted candidacy does not make it to full accreditation but it does happen.

My guess is that as large as Touro is in terms of professional programs, it will fix whatever led to this problem.

North

 

It's not "routine," in that it happens to every school, but it does happen regularly. You haven't heard about it because it isn't brought up here very often.

Yesterday, I heard on NPR that Auburn University is on a one-year probation by their Regional Accreditor (SACS) right now. The radio story was not about their lossing accreditation, but about their problems with the football team. Their being on probation was mentioned as a casual aside. Is anyone not going to apply to Auburn this year because of this?

 

I think a nationally ranked B&M school is very different than a newer Online university.

TUI was gaining momentum, and they may have lost it.... espcially since they look to be not accepting applications.

Is Auburn not accepting any more students? If they were not, maybe this would hurt them like TUI is doing..... it is all perspetion. Unfortunate, becuase I think they were the leader of the pack in getting acccepted by the skeptics.

 

Below information was posted to a Yahoo discussion forum by someone who has read the accreditation statement:
This is taken from one of the Yahoo groups.

I have received the public disclosure statement and statement of accreditation status for Touro College/TUI from Middle States Commission on Higher Education. If you would like a copy of this please contact Margaret Robbins: MRobbins@m... They sent it free of charge.

Here is the gist of the situation:

Following an onsite visit, the institution was placed on probation in November 2003 and a monitoring report was requested by 3-01-04 prior to the conduct of an of a comprehensive evaluation visit to Touro College's main campus, documenting the steps taken and progress made to:

1. improve the quality, consistency, and rigor of the TUI doctoral
programs
2. address the staffing needs and faculty capacity issues for TUI
doctoral programs
3. develop and conduct and external review of TUI's doctoral programs
4. ensure the requirements for TUI doctoral programs are consistent
with an advanced level of study
5. revise the curriculum plan for the Touro University California (TUC)
PA/MPH program to describe goals and objectives and a timeline for
implementation
6. develop a staffing plan for TUC, particularly for the PA/MPH
program, and a research plan

"The commission also cautioned the institution with respect to the further
growth of all TUI programs, and doctoral student enrollments, pending the
spring 2004 evaluation visit to Touro College and action by the full
commission at its June 2004 meeting. Further the commission postponed action
on the continued inclusion of TUI and TUC within the scope of Touro
College's accreditation, pending the scheduled spring 2004 visit to Touro
College."

 

Auburn is in...

trouble with SACS because they are disagreeing over the influence of the politically appointed board in the affairs of the school. I think there may even be a lawsuit involved. Not good, suing your accreditor. This is a common reason for probation. I have seen it several times in the past at other schools, especially community colleges where there is a lot of community involvment. Regional accreditors are very touchy about the influence of politically appointed trustees boards etc. and react very strongly when they believe the academics may be losing total control. I have my own opinions on that and won't go into it here.

Another big problem (probably the largest) that can get you in trouble with the accreditors is financing. Grambling almost lost theirs over it and at least one school has lost accreditation in the SACS region over it in the past year.

 

Chris, I agree with your statements, but the faculty part is only one part of a very big problem. It seems that the quality and difficulty of the PhD program is coming into question. That is very worrisome. The faculty portion is a quick enough fix, though a trade and risk that you have already mentioned.

The bigger, longer term issue is the "quality, consistency, and rigor of the TUI doctoral programs" and "ensure the requirements for TUI doctoral programs are consistent with an advanced level of study".

Having to reivse the curriculum? What is that saying about the program now? I don't want to make a jump, but it doesn't seem like a very far one. Yikes!!

I was beginning to think it was routine, like some are saying, or that it is not of big concern, but after reading the quotes above... Yikes again!

 

It appears that we can't handle the truth. To be placed on probation is a serious matter. To suggest that colleges are routinely place on probation without reasonable and justifiable cause is wrong and deceitful. Colleges are placed on probation only if they are found wanting by the accreditation commission. The changes that Touro College is required to make or undertake may be insignificant and easily surmountable but being place on probation is a sign of trouble. No school to my knowledge will voluntarily choose to be placed on probation. To have MSA remove the probation, Touro College officials must do what they were asked to do.

Ike Okonkwo, PhD

 

Touro communication

It is a problem, to me as a current TUI student when the lack of communication from TUI makes me rethink my enrollement.

Here are two quotes from a member of TUI's admin team:

"Do not worry, this kind of actions are quite common, it does not have to be related to academic issues, it is already corrected, overall it does not effect anything regarding to the accreditation of TUI."

"Your question was referred to my attention:
Touro College (not TUI) was asked to make several changes that it has now completed."

Each seems to imply that this has everything to do with Touro- not TUI, and that the actions have since been completed.

The new information seems to contradict this....


Reggie

 

It appears that the truth is finally filtering in. One poster stated earlier that the probation has nothing to do with TUI doctoral programs. I have to reiterate that some of us can't handle the truth. Now, it appears that it has something to do with TUI programs. I also have to add that if it is Touro College's problem, it should be regarded as TUI's problem because TUI RA comes from Touro College regional accreditation. If Touro College loses its regional accreditation, TUI will also lose its RA.

Ike Okonkwo, PhD

 

I have stated severally in the past that all that glitters is not gold but nobody listened to me. Rich Douglas (who has not contributed to the current thread) once said that he will wait to see what will happen when TC accreditation is up for renewal. I am sure that Touro's accreditation will be restored eventually but that will require some hard work. The work that will be done may not be as easy as has been portrayed here by TUI students. TUI has never been through the process before. TUI became RA after MSA extended TC RA to TUI.

Ike Okonkwo, PhD

 

I ask you all wait a minute to think of TUI's situation before jumping into many conclusions. I do realize that Touro’s probation status is a serious matter. Touro reaccredidation is TUI’s real test of going through an accreditation process. Please remember that TUI did not have to go through an accreditation process to achieve its accreditation. I personally expected the worse (i.e., changing all its undergraduate and graduate curriculums, adding residency to its Ph.D. programs,...). I am saying this not to justify the situation because probation is bad. Many of you may remember of discussions about TUI accreditation a few years ago. Claims were made that MSA’s officials were unaware of TUI’s 100% no residency Ph.D. programs when it included TUI into Touro accreditation. The problems listed are serious charges, but they are fixable. I do agree that TUI's officials need to email all its students and clearly explain of the situations. It is Marketing 101.

 

Support DL, don't tear down, hurts us all

Distance learning higher education is going to come off hard scrunity from the RA. The concept is new, and just starting to get the respect it needs.

It's America. Meaning we have free speech and can discuss many topics openly and freely. However, when someone decides to bash Walden, Nova, University of Phoenix, Northcentral University, please choose your words carefully. Good, meaningful conversation-great. However, when slanderous, or just plain crazy statements are made by others who have no real experience, or feel threatened by a different program, you just hurt ALL DL programs. The acceptance that DL is slowly, but surely receiving can be lost.

Everyone seemed so keen on Touro, and now let's add them to the scrap pile. They DO have problems, and it is academic, and the allegations that you put on NCU are in fact the ones a RA board found with Touro. Whether they are true or not, I don't know. It could be Middle States view of distance learning programs, and taking a hard look at the program.

So I wish Touro the best, and I give them my support in getting the issues resolved. Bashing them will not help the DL community, but putting them out as the gold standard and every other Ph.D DL as dirt has been a very unfair, and proven fact to be untrue.

Let's support each other, not tear each other down, or WE all fall.

rnattorney

 

Re: Support DL, don't tear down, hurts us all

WOW, there is a contradiction!! Throw them to the scrap pile!

 

It is likely that Touro College/TUI will eventaully solve their accreditation problems and come off "probationary" status. This may take a few months or even a few years. However, the record of probation will remain.

The PROBLEM is the academic credibility for those currently in a Touro program. Graduating from Touro before, during and after this time of "probation" has severly harmed the prospects of graduates and potential graduates.

During an interview, indicating that your school is under accreditation "probation" cannot help anyone.

 

This may be true of someone who graduates and applies for a job during the probationary period.

For those who wait it out and finish after they are removed from probation, I suspect it will not be such a problem. Most employers are not going to dig to discover they were one in probation, and if they do, they will also note that they recovered.

We already know many employers don't even bother to check if the school is RA in the first place; if they don't do that, how are they going to know about the probation.

Then there's the issues of employer views on DL degrees. If your degree is issued by a school that also has a Traditional campus, is there a difference in the transcripts? If not, the employer won't even know, unless you bring it up during your interview - it's not common enough for them to bring it up. Even then, it should not be much different than graduating from a school your interviewer has never heard of. Some will actually be impressed by a DL degree because it requires much more self-motivation.

 

It depends on the school - my MBA was in the "iMBA" department, but my trasncript and diploma is identical to the B&M MBA.

 

Assuming that the following information is credible (I have no way of knowing), there's something significant that I don't think that anyone has commented on yet.

We all know that Touro College is a small New York City college that's been explosively expanding into a full-service university. As Touro adds new branches and programs, they are gathered under the Middle States umbrella through substantive change procedures.

But several of these new entities are located a continent away in California. They include Touro University International, Touro's DL operation, and Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine (TUCOM) in Vallejo, which is expanding into a full-scale university in its own right (and planning a branch in Las Vegas).

So, is Middle States getting uneasy with this arrangement? In effect it treats what might be separate doctoral level universities as if they were just new Touro College programs.

Is Middle States thinking of telling Touro to seek accreditation for TUI and TUCOM directly from WASC out in California?

If that happens, I wonder if TUI will be able keep its 100% non-resident doctorates. WASC has yet to accredit such a thing.