What in the heck is wrong with the people that run our public schools?

And that's why we all need to remember that education begins at home. If parents aren't doing their part to prepare their children for an education, it is certainly the parent's fault. That not only includes academic topics, but simple concepts such as respect and decency.

-Matt

 

I know you are not a teacher, but what percentage falls on the parents vs. teachers? 50/50 or 70/30 or 20/80?

 

^^^^ This. Truer words could not be spoken, written, or what-have-you.

 

What are TSA lines?

 

The reason why our society fails is because we try to figure out "how much is my fault and what can I externalize?"

It doesn't matter what the percentage is as that's just a made up figure to make someone feel better about themselves. If a parent shirks their responsibility then they're at fault. If a teacher doesn't do his or her job he or she is at fault.

Bottom line is that parents spend far fewer of their waking hours during the school year with their kids than the teachers do as a team. While the teachers are with the kids, they have responsibility. During the summer you'd assume that parents spend more time with their kids and if children drop off in skill between June and September, it's the parents responsibility.

 

Airport security checks.

 

Actually Libertarians are all about personal responsibility and accountability. Why is it the government's job to try and ensure my safety aboard a flight by removing more rights? For example, what if everyone in the hijacked 9/11 flights were allowed to carry weapons themselves? What if our culture was more accepting of those protecting themselves from criminals and terrorists rather than calling 911 and waiting to be rescued? Those are also very Libertarian viewpoints.

That said I am not strictly Libertarian and I understand the reasonableness arguement and the limitations of the Constitution. However the "no one is forcing you to...so we can do..." argument could be applied to anything, why limit it to flying? Oh wait, the government isn't. For example, right now several states are being given federal money to enforce motorcycle safety "checkpoints" which in essence is a roadblock pulling over all motorcycle riders to ensure they are tagged, inspected, sober, licensed and insured all without reasonable suspicion or probable cause. They're doing it in Georiga now and other states are signing on for the "free money". Their argument? Nobody forces you to ride a motorcycle, it's a choice. Of course no one forces me to own a home, drive a car, work for a living, wear pants or eat pizza either...so could freedom limiting conditions be set on any of these activities? Who gets to define "reasonable"? Does the government just get to do what they want for however long they want until someone with enough money and time has been victimized in such a way that our Federal Courts are willing to listen to the case? (which could take years if not decades)

The difference between Libertarians and everyone else as I see it Libertarians believe in personal accountability and consequences THUS there is no NEED for a large government/nanny state. I think you've got it backwards.

 

Very well said friendorfoe!

 

I am so amazed at how many parents don't give a flying rats rear end how their kids do in school and put forth no effort to teach their kids anything. It also amazes me how many kids are "passed" by teachers when they should be failed. I think there is a lot of blame to go around.

I also have a minority view that schools should not be "teaching" cooking, sewing, music, art, gym, study hall, etc. and they should not be providing breakfast, lunch and dinner. Also that school facilities should just be bare bones basics without pools, huge gymnasiums, cafeterias, hospital facilities, etc. -- But I'm old school.

My district was using temporary mobile homes (cheap!) because they needed more room until a new school could be built. After 2-3 years the new school was built. Of course I was one of the few that kept asking if you could use the mobile homes for 3 years why not 10 years? Of course I'm a cheapskate as well.

 

One other comment. I think parents should have to pay "some" amount to send their kids to school rather than solely funded by taxpayers. I understand a good education is beneficial to society, but I think parents need to have skin in the game. Maybe give them their money back if their kids obtain a certain GPA. Just a thought. If love of their kids isn't enough maybe love of money would do it.

 

As a teacher, I HATE this. We have a real problem with it in my division, and by the time the kid gets to high school, they have this expectation that they'll just pass without doing any work. The problem is that at our level, you don't graduate if you don't pass classes and state tests. As the union president, I presented this issue to our assistant superintendent a few years ago. Her response was that the research on retention shows that if students are retained after failure, it leads to a higher rate of student dropouts in high school. That may be true, but your only setting the kids up to continue failing in high school because they haven't become proficient in the basic skills as the elementary and middle school levels.

Now to respond to the teaching passing these kids along comment, we're forced to. Administrators can "overrule" a teacher's grades and change them or just pass the kid along anyway. Sometimes it IS the teacher's doing, and other times it's not.

-Matt

 

Wow! I did not know they could do that. I thought maybe teachers were being pressured to pass kids but not that administrators could change the grades. Astonishing. Learn something new every day.

 

Libertarians are people trying to live in today's world with yesterday's values. There's some nobility to that approach but also a heck of a lot of naiveté.

The culture is very accepting of those protecting themselves from criminals and terrorists; but not to endanger the larger public good.

I don't see a problem with any of the above. The society builds structures that I live with every day. The government is in theory elected by the society. The government may then do whatever it chooses to and I live inside the system I'm presented with, just like everyone else in the world does.

Times change and needs change. Survivors roll with it and sometimes people die or get oppressed. If it's truly bad enough, someone will come along in dire need of stroking their egos and need for self-promotion and start a movement to correct it; but that doesn't mean that life changes materially for anyone but those taking those risks. You're just replacing a system with another system and there's just another person in charge that will take advantage of everyone else.

In general, any system allows people living within it to live better than they would on their own without any support at all provided they've got no where better to move to. Let me have a place to sleep safely, a spouse and my kids and I'm pretty much ok with anything else that happens; because I know that by playing in the system I'm going to live longer than I am if I buck it or try to be self supporting.

Fair enough. I believe I'm right. Next time I need to send a humanitarian mission to a third world country because of the despots you're on about, I'll go see my next door neighbor and ask him to handle it. We'll see how that works out

 

It's all political. I know the NCLB was passed with good intentions, but it has had some royally bad side effects, including corruption, cheating, and flat out deception. And guess who suffers? The kids...

It's all about pressure. The School Boards pressure the Superintendent who pressures the principals who pressures the teachers. And throw in the fact that a few parents are bullying teachers. We actually had two teachers file complaints against a local cop who was showing up in uniform verbally abusing them about the grades they were "giving" his son. That seems to be the thing to do these days, when in fact, if parents would just work with their kids to ensure they're actually doing the assignments, they's both LEARN and get decent grades.

-Matt

 

Ferris Bueller - "Not that I condone fascism, or any -ism for that matter. -Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me." Good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people. "

 

I disagree that it is naive to believe that values that have stood for over 200 years and multiple generations, which people have fought and died to preserve, the very values that make your current quality of life possible today, are no longer valid. That is not to say some changes occur out of necessity (such as abolition of slavery for instance) but the best changes are those that instead move us closer to the original ideal of freedom (such as the abolition of slavery). I am not so egotistical or delusional as to assume that we are smarter today than our predecessors 100, 200 or even 1,000 years ago. We have more knowledge at our disposal, but the wisdom of our general leadership and populace at large? Sorry but call me naïve if you wish, but the men who penned the Constitution were geniuses. They envisioned a society with personal liberty at its core and as the seed by which the country as a whole will prosper. Not entirely unlike Adam Smith but I digress.

That is (IMHO) a dangerous and at best cynical attitude towards your freedoms. It almost sounds as if you take them for granted. “Sometimes people die or get oppressed” is a pretty mild mannered way describing human events such as Pol Pot, the Holocaust, the massacres in Sudan, the Russian Communist political purges, etc. Man’s inhumanity towards man, in the name of government has been not only well documented throughout history but has demonstrably shown that without these men who as you put it are in “…dire need of stroking their egos…for self-promotion…” the world would look very, very different. I doubt you would have your simple needs of “…a place to sleep safely, a spouse…kids…”, etc. It is discouraging to know that you are “…pretty much ok with anything else that happens…” as this is probably similar to the attitudes the Polish had towards their Jewish neighbors who were rounded up by Nazis (one of a hundred examples I could mention).


Maybe I misunderstand you but it sounds a lot like if you are left alone, to hell with everyone else? That soldiers are simple pawns in the game, that they really do not in effect make a difference as the “system” they (U.S. soldiers) fight could easily be replaced by a “system” our nation’s enemies would put in place if they somehow beat our own forces and that would be hunky dory? If you really do believe that then I don’t know what to say other than thank God there are men naïve enough to put their lives on the line for values they hold in esteem that people like you would consider quaint or naïve. Enjoy your parasitic existence off of these men’s contributions towards your life and make sure you sneer at them in contempt whenever you meet one in person.

 

My only issue especially with those in High School are why are the students putting up with this when they have all the power they need to break the system open. Here is what I have been advocating students in Middle and High School openly boycott the state tests (FCAT or whatever they are called in a state) by passively showing up at school and doing what they like. And try to get the boycott to 80% or more of the students. I did note they should go to the testing rooms, do one question wrong and walk out to fail it on purpose. Do you know a better way to stick it to the system then a state and all these schools failing at one time. It would be glorious.

If they remediate these students the students should refuse but show up at school. What could they do you cannot nail students for doing anything illegal if they show up, you can't beat children or hurt them and if children decide to ignore the school on things like detention they have no power.

I consider compulsory attendence of a student as a form of slavery they have no choice, they face discipline if they don't go and have their lived dictated for them including how they dress. It might be fine for a young child but a teenager should have more of a say and like I said if enough decided to use their clear power to say NO, while not being violent or not going to the school campus they would embrace this power.

Sad to say its clear no adult really will give them a fair shake on education and I know this would hurt schools and funding, teachers might lose their jobs and states funding - who cares in the end its the children that matter. I want teachers to teach, I was students especially teens to learn but this should be more on their terms and I don't care what happens in a revolution people get hurt. This would be a peaceful revolution an end to the slavery of children to the system.

I know this is not a popular view but you educators know as long as a student is peaceful, shows up at school and is not an issue your options are few if they decided to rebel. If some of you are for human rights then why ignore this oppressed group?