Using the title of Dr. with a CA state approved doctorate

Unfortunately, accreditation is currently the only reliable way to evaluate unaccredited schools. Otherwise, what is left is listening to the owners and students of those schools to determine their worth, and each of those groups has a vested interest in the outcome.

 

But you have just put your finger on the exact problem. There is no way to do this kind of evaluation.

The only way to evaluate an unaccredited school in an accurate and defensible manner would be to conduct a detailed, independent review of their academic standards and procedures. There's a term for this process: it's called "accreditation". Unaccredited schools -- by definition -- don't allow it.

There is no way to effectively evaluate schools that do not choose to cooperate with evaluators.

 

Another angle...

We have a guy here that runs a very successful nutrition, supplemnt, alternate remedy supply store. He routinely refers to himself as "Dr. so-so" in his ads even though he has a PhD in a non-medical/nutrition/biology field. Pretty misleading in my book but he has been doing it for years....

 

Re: Another angle...

'Dr. Laura'

She does have an RA Ph.D., but it's in physiology and has nothing to do with her celebrity pop-psychology activities. (She does have a relevant masters degree and a California counseling license, I believe.)

 

Re: Re: Another angle...

BS: Biological Sciences, SUNY Stonybrook, Long Island

MS, MPhil, PhD: Columbia University (College of Physicians and Surgeons)

Post-Doctoral Certification: Marriage, Family and Child Counseling, university of Southern California

Licensed Marriage, Family and Child Counselor but I believe her license in now inactive since she is no longer in private practice.

 

I'm inclined to agree that accreditation is the quickest and most reliable way for laymen to make these determinations.

But I agree with Jimmuh (I'm trying to capture the Southern pronounciation) that accreditation isn't necessarily the only way.

His example of an unaccredited seminary recognized by the denomination that runs it is a good one. It reminds all of us that academic recognition is often a very context dependent thing.

My FAA example was meant to send the same message. For those that didn't get the cryptic reference, the FAA not only recognizes a certain CA-approved school, personnel from the aircraft certification service are required to take FAA classes that are taught by the school.

(Huffman should remember that next time he boards an airliner. If he wasn't a white-knuckle flyer before, he sure as hell will be now. )

Caldog provided a third example himelf a few months ago: Rockefeller University. It's state recognized and not RA, but somehow it muddles along in the credibility department. (The Nobel prizes probably help.) It's true that the US Dept. of Education does accept NY recognition as accreditation, but how many people beyond Degreeinfo know that?

That's not why Rockefeller University is prestigious. The NY Regents have next to nothing to do with that, they just provide the legal condition for the school's operating in New York.

What I like to do is Google schools.

Among the things I look for are:

Research and scholarly activity. Recognition by professionals at other institutions. Collaborations and joint projects. A strong faculty claiming the school as their own institutional affiliation. Successful graduates. Grants and awards won. Visiting scholars. Favorable media notice. Government recognition of various kinds. Impressive facilities.

It's awfully hard to fake that stuff and it tells you a great deal.

 

The Florida Supreme court agreed with you and said that the law was unenforcible for that reason.

 

It is usually very safe to assume that whatever Bill Dayson posts I'm going to have to agree with it whether I want to or not! This is one case where I will have to continue to hope that he's mistaken though.



Bill is apparently referring to one of his favorite unaccredited schools which teaches pilots and is very unique specialized and obviously well respected within the community of professional pilots. I thought that you reported that they were becoming candidates for accreditation? Perhaps you shouldn't tell if I'm mistaken because I am already uncomfortable enough when I have to fly.

 

See, that's what I don't like

We have a guy here that runs a very successful nutrition, supplemnt, alternate remedy supply store. He routinely refers to himself as "Dr. so-so" in his ads even though he has a PhD in a non-medical/nutrition/biology field. Pretty misleading in my book but he has been doing it for years....

Yeah, that kinda thing irks me!

However, there is also a first amendment issue hidden in there..(unless public saftey is an issue, like the "fire" in the theatre thing, etc.)

Still, presenting yourself as the conscience of "martial arts for peace" and using a millish degree to further the cause (and make a BOATLOAD of cash whilst at it) is a serious conflict to me. But I'll shut up about it.

Plus, If I want to and I'm not threatening the peace, practicing medicine or presenting myself as a police officer, I can say pretty much anything I want to say. For instance...on my new resume'

I was a POW in the first World War and received my Doctorate in Classics from a metrosexual, French myna-bird on crossing guard duty.

All true, all true.

 

Re: Undate of legality

 

Then it would be "Geeeemee."

 

The examples that you offer are valid, but they are of limited applicability. The degrees offered by these schools are all designed for use within specific technical niches. It's easier for any school -- accredited or unaccredited -- to build a reputation within a small specialized niche. After all, how many test pilot schools or RCUS seminaries are there in the US ?

I don't doubt that biomedical researchers recognize and respect Rockefeller U, or that RCUS members recognize and respect Heidelberg, or that aviation professionals recognize and respect NTPS. The average "layman" probably doesn't, but it is unlikely that a "layman" would be evaluating such degrees anyway, so it doesn't matter.

The problem, of course, is that most unaccredited schools don't confine themselves to small niches. Instead, they issue degrees in popular fields like business, engineering, or education. There are thousands of schools that issue such degrees. Degree evaluation is one thing in a niche occupied by a handful of schools; it's another thing entirely when thousands of schools are involved.

 

Greaterh Westh Indianah Co-Prosperityh Sphereh

Jimmuh Tennoh???

 

Re: Greaterh Westh Indianah Co-Prosperityh Sphereh

In the immortal and inimitable words of Ricky Ricardo, "Splain."

I don't get it.

 

Re: Greaterh Westh Indianah Co-Prosperityh Sphereh

The emperor of Japan.

The only people qualified to adorn themselves with the Doctorate by Acclamation are Julius Erving and Arthel Watson.

 

Personally, I'm rather a bit libertarian in these matters. If you're a private individual, I say get whatever degree you want and make your best (hopefully reasonably educated) guess as to how much mileage you'll get out of your degree. If you're an employer, I say hire whom you want and make your best (hopefully reasonably educated) guess on how good your employees' degrees are. If you're the government, I say get the bleep out of the way and let the people make their own choices and succeed or fail on their own.

 

So essentially, the Florida Supreme Court ruled that the statute to which Simon was referring, has been.judged to be unconstitutional and thus unenforcible. If this is the case, then the practitioner would still be able to leglally list his earned doctorate in psychology from an unaccridited university in California. Albeit, the state of Florida did attempt to oulaw the practice.

Interesting. Do you know what specifically the court found constitutionally unacceptable?

 

Hi Jimmy....since a similar statute in Florida was successfully challenged on a consitutional basis, I was wondering if the Indiana statute had been legally challenged.

 

I would appreciate if Bill Huffman would kindly present the link to the Florida Supreme Court ruling that indicates that the Florida statute I presented was unconstitutional and thus unenforceable. At this time no one at a number of Florida Boards of licensure are aware of this supreme court ruling. Thanks, Simon

 

I would appreciate if Bill Huffman would kindly present the link to the Florida Supreme Court ruling that indicates that the Florida statute I presented was unconstitutional and thus unenforceable. At this time no one at a number of Florida Boards of licensure are aware of this supreme court ruling. Thanks, Simon