Shutting down for-profit schools could hurt more people than it would help

The new USA

 

Just thought the thread about University of New Hampshire is fitting.

 

Hmmm...these are some unfortunate circumstances. How many students who intend to be in the nursing profession would accept attending a degree program that has little, if anything, to do with their intended professional and academic interests? Additionally, the expectation for instructors to tutor during class hours (on fundamental concepts and skills) is pretty disheartening. Hopefully there is, will be some backlash staged by the faculty members who are being put in these positions.

 

Ever see what happens with nursing programs at CCs?

They are incredibly popular because of the earning potential coupled with the fact that you are almost guaranteed to find a job upon graduation. So they attract the most applications.

Where you get shuffled next is largely determined by your financial aid. Some just linger for a few semesters as non-degree students taking General Education hoping that their grades, and likelihood of success, has reached the point that they may win the favor of the nursing program admissions committee.

Others are stuck in other programs. If they're lucky there is a related degree program. At my current CC "Health Studies" is the favorite for people who didn't qualify for admission into the Nursing program. No matter how you cut it you're looking at wasted credits if your end goal is nursing. If you make it into the nursing program at the CC then you are spending a minimum of 3-4 years to earn two associates degrees (one in Nursing and one in Health Studies). If you transfer to a four year school only a portion of those courses are going to actually transfer into a nursing program.

When you get into the nursing program at a CC, and this has been the case at a number of CCs I've checked in with, the likelihood of you earning your associate's in two years is extremely slim. 3-4 years is the norm because of how competitive some of the courses can be coupled with the course sequencing.

So you can be progressing at a swift pace but can't get into Class X in the Spring which is a prerequisite for Class Y in the Fall. Since Class X is only offered in the Spring and Class Y is only offered in the fall that means another year just got added before you can graduate. If you fail to get into Class Y the following Fall then, well, add another year.

It seems to be hit or miss whether your counselor will advise for you to just come back and take a one course semester to get caught up or whether they will encourage you to just study "other stuff" to fill up your schedule and remain full-time.

But does it really serve a nursing student to study full-time and walk away after four years with two associate's degrees? Or one associate's degree and a bunch of miscellaneous credits? I don't see that serving the interest and needs of the student at all. The only party that seems to benefit is the CC.

Granted, some CCs have more offerings. I've seen students at my CC end up in the paramedic program and ultimately drop their Nursing aspirations in favor of a career as a paramedic. I met one student who dropped her hopes of getting into the nursing program, finished the paramedic program, and then completed her BSN through Excelsior while some of the people she attended orientation with were still trying to get into the nursing program.

My point is simply that nursing programs at CCs are not typically beneficial to the majority of students. And they operate in a way that isn't terribly different from the way you describe this for-profit experience. And they are so competitive that you can pretty much forget any possibility of the faculty taking the time to help you ramp up for future success. The CC has a long line of people applying to the nursing program who can already read and do math.

 

That's an excellent path because it offers transferable credits that lead to a BSN.

 

It can be a solid path. But there is no substitute for nursing credits.

Here's an example...

Compare that to the RN program at the same school:

Not really a lot of crossover. One could structure their science electives in the paramedic programs to make it a bit more competitive. But still.

I haven't looked at the Excelsior program to know how generous they are with non-nursing program transfers. But considering it's a way for an LPN or Paramedic to earn a BSN without having to drop their career and go through a full 4 year program I could see it being a tempting option.

But CCs shoving people who don't qualify for Nursing into a Paramedic program is fine if you are changing your goals. But if they are doing it as a place to cool your heels until you DO qualify for nursing then it is likely not going to help very much. It would be very possible to be at a CC for three years and have part of a Paramedic degree (useless) and part of a nursing degree (equally useless).

Some people can clearly make it work for them. But if you need someone to take care of you, provide you with extensive tutoring to be college ready when beginning from the brink of illiteracy and have your hand held through a program then CCs are not going to help you very much no matter how their lobbying group states to the contrary.

 

If you want access to other people's money, there are rules you have to follow. Using your logic, a person's death should be blamed solely on someone not giving him money to pay for heart surgery even though he was the one who ate an unhealthy diet. No one told ITT Tech to charge so much that it couldn't convert to a non-Title IV school. No one told ITT Tech to mislead students on their high interest loans. I pay taxes, but just because the government has helped other people with home loans, I am not entitled to one myself if I don't meet the criteria.

Like many college students, some of the applicants didn't know what they wanted to study, but there were some who didn't get into the program they wanted.

At least 75% of this has nothing to do with what I said. I sure wasn't criticizing the school for weeding out people who wouldn't be successful in the nursing program. I thought it was quite clear that my criticism was for their practice of admitting students who can't read or write well without offering remedial courses.