Question of value with online degrees unanswered

According to Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

distance learning
Function: noun
: learning that takes place via electronic media linking instructors and students who are not together in a classroom

on·line
Function: adjective
: connected to, served by, or available through a system and especially a computer or telecommunications system (as the Internet)

correspondence school
Function: noun
: a school that teaches nonresident students by mailing them lessons and exercises which upon completion are returned to the school for grading

external degree
Function: noun
: a degree conferred on a student who has not attended the university but has passed the qualifying examination

 

I think that this gives credibility to the program. Some of these programs don't even advertise themselves as "distance" or "online.

At the University where I work, we have an executive MBA that only requires attendance once a month that is not advertised as "DL" but as executive. Potential employers will never know that it was earned this way as the University does not offer DL programs.

 

That's not unreasonable.

If I was making hiring decisions, I'd want to know about lab classes and about whatever practical hands-on experiences are associated with the applicant's particular degree.

I do think that in some cases at least, an interviewer might want to ask a DL applicant a slightly different set of questions, but that shouldn't suggest that the questions can't be answered.

And we have to remember that job applications are an entire package. An applicant with a DL degree earned while aquiring relevant on-site work experience might look better than a kid with a conventional degree right out of college.

Finally, we should remember that the on-campus/DL distinction is becoming increasingly fuzzy. Most students take some DL classes these days. It's often a matter of scheduling. And many on-campus classes have online components. In a sense, everybody's becoming a DL student. The only question is how much DL.

 

RF,
You are correct, there is a difference, it is in the delivery.

There are also B&M classes with a similar "contact learning style" opposed to the "test taking for knowledge" style. Education is evolving and some do not want to hear of it.

Most would agree that for a majority DL classes you still have to put your butt in a REAL seat to take the midterm and final exams. Right.

The difference basically rests in the thoughts of a few close minded individuals.

 

The not so favorable perception of advanced degrees from for-profit proprietary schools may necessitate changes in their admission standards and for increased standards for academic performance from their students. Although there are some very capable students attending these programs a number of students are attracted to these graduate programs due to their belief that "distance" and/or "online" degree programs are by nature an easier conduit to a doctorate. The fact that a relatively low GPA is required to enter these doctoral programs as well as no GRE or equvalent tests, many students are being admitted with questionable academic competencies. This contrasts to the stringent entrance requirements of the majority of brick and mortar schools' doctoral programs as well as expectations for higher levels of academic performance.

Perhaps with changes in these areas online/distance for-profit degree programs may enhance the perception of their degrees as well as their value in the job market.

 

Not really, DL is not new and for most of the traditional universities this meant that the student was not required to attend on campus classes but still required to take proctored exams with the same examinations as on campus students. Waterloo, Military Royal Academy and others in Canada have followed this model for years.

The issue now is with online courses, some new programs offered by new virtual schools have changed the traditional model of examinations by online discussions and delivering online assignments. Some of this online courses also follow a two month period instead of the traditional 15 weeks offered at traditional universities.

I think that the concerns are valid as the new online model differs from the traditional model. Basically you have no exams or no proctored exams, online discussions replacing exams and shorter periods of time. Many argue that this model is as effective as the traditional model but the reality is that they are different.

I still think that an external model used Waterloo, University of London, Heriott Watt and others is very close to the traditional as the only difference is that the student is not required to be on campus but still required to take the same exams as on campus students. If a student can manage to pass the exam without attending classes, why would we think that is less valuable?

On the other hand, the new models with online courses without proctored exams and shorter formats is what I think is being questioned by HR people.

I don't think that anyone would question a degree from Waterloo or University of London because degrees were earned the traditional way but just in the external mode.

 

It is not going to happen, you have to understand that school like NCU are making money with doctorate students. Most of the B&M schools don't see doctorates as money makers but as a source of cheap labour for research and teaching.

NCU is in the business of providing doctoral education and is in their best interests to recruit as many students as possible. If they decide to keep their degrees for few, they wouldn't be able to survive as they rely on doctoral students as their main source of income.

Credential inflation is here to stay you like it or not. A PhD would become a standard credential in many resumes as the proliferation of doctorates is a reality.

Some countries are experiencing this already. I think it is quite common to see in Mexico MDs working in real estate or sales due to the saturation of medical doctors in mexico as many profit schools have medicine faculties. The same phenomenon in Korea or Malasya where PhDs are forced to work as TESL teachers.

 

I think that you might be confusing differences in national higher education models with a (to my mind false) distinction between distance and online education.

In the American system, it's routine to require on-campus students to complete a whole variety of quizzes, assignments, mid-term exams, exercises, projects and papers as the term progresses. A significant part of a student's grade typically depends on midterm work. Our classes are rarely assessed by one final exam alone.

So American DL programs (online is just a technical means of delivering DL) requiring their students to complete assignments during the term is something to be expected. It's precisely what their classroom-based cousins are asked to do.

 

Some Canadian distance courses also require midterm and final proctored exams. Some local universities even offer part of the courses in this mode as some of the students work during the day. The student registers and attends for both midterm and final exam to the university and their degrees are never tagged as "DL" or "online".

The UK and Australian programs only require one final exam even for on-campus programs so for the same reason external programs do the same.

Some courses even run at the same for external and on campus students so there is no distinction.

The confusion is that external programs are not online as some people believe. Online programs are a different animal, external programs have been there for a while and normally part of the traditional education model that consists on projects, assignments and exams.

As a matter of fact, external programs are seen as more difficult as you have to deliver the same as on campus students but without the support of face to face faculty and class mates.

Most of the schools in the UK and Australia offer external degrees and they are not perceived as different or less neither by academics or people in general. A degree from University of Queensland or London is respected regardless the mode of study.

 

On the other hand, the new models with online courses without proctored exams and shorter formats is what I think is being questioned by HR people.

Come to think of it, in that context I would question it too.

 

Nothing against you, but I also heard that something similar is happening with Austrailian doctorates. Someone in another forum said that "the world seems to be getting filled to the brim with Australian DBAs, especially in Asia."

 

Australian DBAs are also cash cows, not doubt about it.

 

I have met in other discussion forums, few graduates from Australian schools that were not able to use this credential for teaching. Few asian graduates have mentioned that DL degrees from Australian schools were not recognized for teaching purposes.

It is easy, if you have too many coming out with the same credential, the market starts questioning the value of the degree even if earned with hard work.

Not so much in DBAs, but I have seen classes in the orders of hundred something in the MBA at USQ. I'm pretty sure that USQ graduates in the order of hundreds of MBAs every year alone with the vast majority of international students as asian.

 

Thanks for the sharing this information. I didn't realize that Aussie DL degrees are not being recognized for teaching purposes in some Asian countries.

 

Not surprising, as these teachers and others in B & M academia would see distance learning / online as a threat to their jobs and job security.

 

Yes, it is possible for two million Americans to be wrong. Many Americans (certainly not all) look for easy and fast ways around lengthy and difficult situations. Fast food = increasing waistlines. Impatience = rising consumer debt. I'm sure we can all thing of ways more than 2 million Americans go wrong

 

That's pretty funny if that's their rationale, because it's actually a boon to their jobs and has been opening up opportunities by swelling the ranks of universities with those who have previously been locked out of the system. It's probably operated to increase their salaries and has opened up new professorships. But it's only a true benefit for those professors who update their philosophies and grow in understanding of the pedagogies of this new delivery method. But catching on to that requires an ability to think outside old tradition's box--and there are too few in academia who can pull that mental feat off.

 

You hit the nail on the head right there.