Powdered Alcohol

I can say "smoke what you want" but the police maintain the right to disagree. It appears local Vape-clubs are throwing down the gauntlet by raising the "green" flag on their premises. Marijuana seed-sellers went through a lot here (raids etc.) until that activity was firmly pronounced legal. It appears the vape-club people are the next group prepared to take on the police. Likely there's a ton of money at stake. My personal opinion - too much fuss about a complete waste of time and money. I look upon non-medical marijuana consumption as a relatively mild form of stupidity --- and you can't forbid stupidity. It never works.

Stronger drugs? More serious stupidity with greater consequences. They won't go away while there's any amount of money to be made. I don't find fault with the vape-stick for facilitating misuse. It's the fault of the people who misuse it. Just commenting on the myriad types and extent of misuse. What I'd like to see is:

(1) No vape products to under 19s
(2) Until we have conclusive data on second-hand "vape" - no vaping where there is no smoking.

(3) As far as drugs, marijuana signs on vape-clubs etc. That's mostly a legislative and law enforcement concern, not mine. Don't like the thought of the next guy in the coffee-line sharing second-hand magic goofy-dust through his vape-stick, though.

J.

 

And, since you helped me, Neuhaus:

I now acknowledge smoke and vapor are two different things. (Hooray! :smile: ) With tobacco products involved, both are completely different carriers of nicotine, noxious chemicals and crap. Maybe some difference in the makeup - but still nicotine and toxic crap.

As I mentioned, we have no data on the safety or dangers of absorbing second-hand vapor. From what I've read, we do have some data on first-hand absorption of tobacco-by-vape. Vaping damage is said to be quite similar in type and extent to that caused by smoking. Kinda reminds me of how people thought ciggy-filters were so good, fifty years ago - when they weren't.

With that in mind - well, you know what I'm saying. For now, no second-hand vape for me.

J.

 

I agree completely. But I wasn't speaking to the issue of whether marijuana consumption was a good idea or not. You raised the question of how police, upon entering a vape club, would know what was being smoked. I was simply pointing out that police officers have no way of knowing if I have coca cola in my coca cola can or if I filled it with rum.

I never said you were. I was simply pointing out that the police officer was in a situation similar to the one you described in the vape club. He saw someone smoking a pipe. What's in it, he wondered? So he decided to harass me for nearly two hours. At the end of the day, smoking a pipe isn't illegal. So unless he smells something he knows to be a drug then it's none of his business. How does a cop know that my ecigarette contains a legal substance? Easy. It's none of his business unless he has some sort of probable cause to search me and have that substance tested.

Canada sure does love the age of 19. It's always been a sort of useless age in this country. You've already been able to vote, enlist, get married and buy smokes for a year but you're still shy of that 21st birthday drinking binge (if you are so inclined). My understanding is that the age 19 thing coincided with Ontario formerly having a 5 year high school program (thus making most "seniors" 18/19 instead of 17/18). Beyond that, I don't believe I've ever seen any research indicating that a 19 year old is more mature or better capable of making dangerous, life altering decisions than an 18 year old. But I think 18 or 19 is a fine age for any nicotine containing product regardless of its delivery vehicle.

Well, that's sort of a point of contention. If I burn a cigarette, I'm sending a whole bunch of "crap" airborne besides the nicotine. If I vape, I still have the nicotine, but the amount of "crap" is currently under debate. There are a number of people who use nicotine free juice in their e cigarettes. Some of these juice mixes have nothing in them besides vegetable glycerin and some sort of flavor.

So this raises two issues:

1. e Cigarettes are not necessarily going to be used for dangerous substances any more than a hookah is necessarily a delivery vehicle for hashish.
2. Regardless of the actual content (nicotine, marijuana, flavored vegetable glycerin with no "drug" added etc) there are unknowns (and a secret third point, it's not like any reasonable parent would beam with pride as their teenager strode into the house puffing on an ecigarette.)

Speaking to the second, I agree that I don't want people vaping in non-smoking areas. The first, and most basic reason, is that I don't want my daughter and son to view anything cigarette-like as a positive thing. Secondary is a concern about second hand vaping (because I don't believe vaporized vegetable glycerin will prove nearly as dangerous as cigarette smoke, but that doesn't mean I want to breath it in anyway). Thirdly, while the person on the bus may be smoking nothing but vegetable glycerin and natural orange essence, there is no way to prevent the guy next to him from smoking some horrible drug. You can't police the juice inside the ecigarette so you end up having to just police the ecigarettes themselves.

Also note that I'm not trying to be confrontational. I'm largely being a smartass; something that comes to me without trying.

 

The reason that Canada (at least my Province) "loves" the age of 19 is partly this:

The drinking age in Ontario was lowered from 21 to 18 - in 1971, IIRC. Unfortunately, some new drivers were also new drinkers. There were complaints of high-school students getting drunk and I remember reading that some 18-year-olds were drinking and driving, with predictable results. Consquently the drinking age was raised to 19. Apparently, that saved some lives, I'm told. I have no data.The tobacco-purchasing age was made 19 along with it. Most other provisions - voting etc. still kick in at 18. The drinking age in several other provinces is 18.

The hookah-cafes face a possible ban here solely (the Government says) for the reason of second-hand smoke. They presently burn something traditional and Eastern that I can't remember the name of. It's made from some plant, but it's neither tobacco nor a drug.

We are all required to use our God-given talents. Someday I may discover mine. :smile:

J.

 

Oh yes - Steve F. mentioned nicotine gum at one point. A story, here. A work buddy and I decided independently to quit smoking around the same time in 1977. I went cold-turkey and he used niccy-gum, which he got for free on his prescription benefits. (This guy would never have paid for it - he was that cheap!)

We both quit smoking successfully - but it took him a year-and-a-half to wean himself off the gum! I'm sure he'd have been off it in a month, if he'd had to pay for it! :smile:

J.

 

In the U.S., some politicians have presented the idea of raising the minimum age to purchase tobacco products to 19. The logic is that there are many 18 year old high school students who can buy tobacco products for younger students. There are 19 year old high school students, but not nearly as many.