PhD psychology (General program): experience needed

Am a 40 years old high tech expert (BA and MS in Telecom + 16 years of experience) that is under deciding to switch "smoothly" to another field ....psychology .....but without prior academic degree in psy (except lots of readings and passion) .
Distance Learning fits my expectations in terms of flexibility and Capella University is my first choice (part time student -PhD-General Program). However a questions is still there . Is it realistic to expect catching up and follow a PhD program that is totally unrelated to my actual skillset and experience (don't want to loose time and money in a desperate endeavor) ???
However , I am highly motivated and my "CPU" is still fine....
Wonder if those who have a similar experience (or have thoughts about it) could provide me with their feedback.

many thanks

JY

 

Alien - I applaud your interest and only wonder how you plan to "catch up." I am assuming that application into any US PhD program (DL or otherwise) is going to be competitive. Without prior academic experience in Psych it would seem unlikely that you would be considered a top candidate for a PhD. You might want to consider a Postgraduate Diploma from an Australian school as a way to develop a "Psych resume." There's more to be said but I's have to know more about your situation.
Jack

 

If you want to practice it is important that you consider APA accredited schools if your state requires that for licensure.
I don't know if Capella is or not, however as a librarian I felt it necessary to check and I do not see Capella on the list of APA accredited schools for Counseling Pshychology. However since that is not my field I don't know if they are APA accredited in other areas.

You could always pick up an undergrad degree in Psychology - or with a concentration in Psychology, from one of the big 3. You mention that you have done a great deal of private scholarship, research and reading- you sound like a perfect candidate for CLEP and other exams of this type. Perhaps that would help with graduate admission. BAin4Weeks.com, Lawrie Miller's site may prove useful in that regard.

Best of luck.

Matt

 

RE Capella PhD

<<But then, having direct contacts with NCU,Capella,ITP, Walden and explaining them my situation, they are ALL ready to accept me as a Psych PhD student !!!
Would it be just to get the money...knowing that I got no chance...Wouldn't like to get trapped..This is the reason of my msg to this forum. Getting poeple experience and try to avoid pitfall>>

Hi Alien,

I am in my second quarter in the Ph.D. in General Psychology at Capella. I find it to be involved (a goodly amount of reading and writing) but not overwhelming. It is certainly a legitimate program I would guess on par with many mid level accredited residential general/counseling programs. Based upon my early experience it is likely to be a realistic prospect for you.

In my own case I came in with a Masters in Clinical Psychology (however I didn't have a psych background before entering this psych masters program). If you are entering Capella without a psych masters, you will essentially be completing the coursework for a masters as part of your doctorate. This shouldn't be a problem for anyone prepared to engage in focused study.

Capella is a for profit outfit, so they have a certain incentive to admit folk. Bruce Weitz, the head of the psych program, says that while Capella does not have a totally 'open' admissions policy, it is welcoming to those without a traditional psych background.

Capella is regionally accredited (NCA) but its Ph.D. in General Psychology is -not- and never will be APA accredited. (They have just created a PsyD program that is aiming for APA accreditation).

It's also worth noting that the Ph.D. in Gen Psy is primarily an academic degree and is not designed to train one to be a clinician. This may or may not impact you. It all depends upon your goals and where you live. For instance, in California (where I live) it is my understanding that this degree will fulfill educational requirements for licensure as a psychologist, but in most other states it would not. (One prob with using this degree in many states is clinical training. There is a whole educational leg of supervised clinical training-typically about 3,000 hours-that most states require be done as part of your formal doctorate. CA allows you to do it separate from the doctorate. In addition many states require that the doctorate be specifically in clinical or counseling psychology and some (currently a minority I believe) require that it be from an APA school. I believe that to work for the federal govt still requires APA accreditation).

Hope this helps.

Good luck.


GME

 

About PH.D. in Psychology

I would not worry a whole lot. I think a Ph.D. in Psychology would be great for you... Psychology, for a guy like you, would be "horse sense" since you have been in the Human Nature work force for so many years. I did not have a degree in psych. and I went into a Masters program for licensure and most of the stuff covered was already things I learned in the real world. With the exception of research/test courses and a few theoreticians and their names, most of what was covered did not require rocket science. You will do fine. I am now in my comps getting a Ph.D. in Family psych at Capella and it is pretty much more of the same just more work... this time, I get to be called Doc when I get done.

Have you considered getting the Ph.D. in I/O Psychology? With your background you could teach intro psych courses and also consult organizations with a Ph.D. in I/O versus just General Psych. I would think an I/O Ph.D. would be much more marketable in both academia and in the market. Capella offers that one also, as you might know.

Hope this helps...

 

Blackbird,

thanks for your answer. Actually, Capella is already my favorite for the PhD (I have good contacts with them) and am almost ready to jump.
As you are raising this , I have to admit that I am hesitating , since a long time now, between the General program and the I/O program
Am personally not interested in being a clinician. My ultimate goals would be :
1) teach and research (which is the main reason form my slight preference in the general program)
2) consult.

Let me know your opinion : I/O or general program ? Would the I/O program enable me to teach and research or would it be mainly for consultting job or HR jobs ?

thanks,

 

Hi GME,

Wonder if you could share your experience of DL at Capella with me :

Are you full time or part time ? how many hours a week do you spend studying (average) ?
is it Ok to deal with family, work and study ?
What's your perceptionon of the quality of teaching and the support you get to make progress ?

thanks,

 

I/O Ph.D. fills both needs.

Alien,

I believe that with the I/O Ph.D. in psychology, if you structure it right, you can then do both (consult and teach). Already, if you look at the I/O course sequence you will notice that it overlaps in certain core courses with the General Program. Also, you have to take 6 electives where you can opt to take classes from any dept. including the General Psych assortment (family, addiction, health, developmental, clinical, etc.). Your Ph.D. in I/O would permit you to teach in college and to consult private/public/religious organizations since you would be like a sort of psychologist designed for organizational issues (not a clinical psychologist which requires specific state lincensure). Your business world experience would permit you to be very nimble doing this kind of doctorate. You could almost immediately consult once you get your Ph.D. As for teaching, most colleges and universities require a minimum of 18 semester credit hours (6 classes) in the discipline you will teach in. So since you would have a Ph.D. in Psych. then that would immediately give you the expertise in their opinion to teach psych courses. As for an I/O dept. at a university, it all depends if they want IVY League grads or if they are willing to hire a secondary doctoral institution like Capella. It is all a matter of timing, needs, and opportunities. It is not that difficult to land a job as an adjunct faculty, especially if you have a Ph.D. In my state system of colleges and universities adjuncts make around 38 dollars per hour teaching in a classroom or 1,800 dollars per 3 semester hour course.

Personally, I would not go the General Psych program since you will have a Ph.D. in Psychology with a Specialization in I/O. It is still a Ph.D. in Psychology!

As for study hours, you will spend around 6-10 hours per course per week on the average. It all depends how much you already know and how fast you can get a system and routine down.

Hope this helps.

 

Hello Alien, I’m a psychologist with more years as an APA member and licensed than I can count on my fingers and toes. Your post is interesting to me in that we’ve taken parallel but opposite trajectories. In my case, after years as a psychologist I earned my BS in IT although my interest was purely avocational. I have no interest in a second career in IT. What I have to say is driven by your request for assurance that you won’t lose time and money in a ‘desperate endeavor.’

First off, have you had the opportunity to be around psychologists? I had a couple of courses in vocational psychology where I was exposed to John Holland’s work. Holland found that the world of work is made up of typologies and career satisfaction is largely determined by goodness of fit between features of the person and the profession. In my case, while I like monkeying around with hard- and software I find most IT types bore me to tears. Imagine what a drag it would be to discover you don’t enjoy the milieu after going to the hassle of pumping out a PhD.

If income is a primary determinant in your decision, I’d look at I/O. If memory serves me it’s the highest paid of the specialties. Also, if you’re highly paid in IT you may not be able to match your salary.

I wonder if you could provide some idea of what strikes your passion in your readings to date. If so, we might be able to offer more definitive direction. Some areas of psychology can be just startlingly dull; especially when you’re studying in the abstract. I found learning theory – stuff like schedules of reinforcement – to be just a major snooze. Although, it came alive with the chance to apply theory in the lab. Boy, if there are any experimentalists reading this they’ll probably give me the business for saying learning theory is dull ;-). It’s a big tent; there are over 50 divisions in the APA. My passions are geriatrics and brain-behavior relationships.

Were I you, if you require a job doing teaching and research, I’d ask some hard questions about the program’s placement success including information about salary. More than just the percentage who obtained employment upon finishing the degree. Ask about success in placement in the sort of job you want – which sounds like you aspire to a tenure track at a major university -- as opposed to folk who wind up as freeway faculty. Which if the concept is new refers to PhDs who wind up teaching part-time at several different colleges just to make ends meet. It happens more and more. Psychology is like anything else where opportunity comes not just from hard work but networking and mentoring. Plus, to get a job in a university where you will be supported for doing research and teaching, you’ll need an exemplary publication record during graduate school. In my experience, students who successfully negotiate those waters do so by apprenticing themselves in their advisor’s lab for publications and presentation at professional associations. My suspicion is this sort of opportunity just isn’t available though an online doctoral program. There was a poster in another thread recently who spoke of her decision to abandon DL for a bricks and mortar university (Parenthetically, grinning broadly, Adrienne if you read this Georgia alums refer to FSU as half assed u) for this reason. Not to mention are you prepared for six or seven years of crushing pressure to publish something like six or seven articles in referred journals a year if you expect to make tenure when you’re no longer a twenty-something.

Alien, don’t “hear” me telling you not to take your shot; I’ve trained lots of 40+ students who excel. One question I have is if you’ve considered trying to meld your experience into a new career? Something like human factors engineering or cognitive psychology/artificial intelligence comes to mind. Or even neuropsychology if you like ‘wiring’ although neuropsychology is a clinical endeavor. In any event I wish you well. Do your due diligence: be certain of what you want, how your goal will fit you personally and what training you require to maximize the likelihood you get where you want to go.

David

 

David,

First, thanks for your very valuable comments.
Here is some background that will probably helps better to understand my reasons and feed the debate.
1) I spent 16 year as a system architect in the R&D (Research & Development) in companies like IBM. Lucent (Bell Labs). got many patents of inventions, and had the occasion to work with some very bright persons. I left with my family my country of origin (France) 5 years ago to settle in the US
2) Unfortunately and as you mention in your mail "I find most IT types bore me to tears" (whatever the country...) and It is clear in my mind that I won't wait ,doing nothing, for next 20 years expecting a confortable retirement...
3) besides this and for a while , I have a passion for philosophy, consciouness study, transpersonnal psychology.. and more .. (I love Jung , Wilber). I would like to use this as a starter to reorient my carreer
4) However, I am a realistic person and I know that I have to pay my bills . My actual job being really well paid, I'm taking great care on how I will evolve without jorpardizing my position
5) I try to find a compromise between passion, reason, and strive to find a solution that combines past exprerience with a "new" field of interest and found out that Psych (PhD General program or I/O program) in a DL/online approach would be , potentially, a good solution. As I am more of an academic persson, Teaching, research, consult would fit.
6) I have to admit that I don't know the psych (US) milieu. However when taking a decision we never control all parameters . Life is an "open-system"... -)

Would be glad to hear your comments

 

Alien,

I'm also a Capella learner. Capella's doctorates or those from Walden, Fielding, CIIS, despite their PhD letters behind them, seem more to be professional degrees (like the PsyD) and designed for applied psychology. They are not so much designed for extensive academic research (publications, teaching) as David Williams points out.

that being said sounds like you want to do a little of each, and with a doctorate from Capella you'll be able to teach at colleges but teaching at major universities will be more difficult.

And, like someone else said, your IT skills would be an assett in teaching DL classes, and major universities are sometimes lacking in faculty who are as computer savvy as you.

Nevertheless, if you ever become intersested in applied psychology, Capella's PsyD seems to be headed for APA accreditation within the next 2 years.

Capella is a good school, and knowing how competitive traditional clinical programs at major universities are, I think that it offers opportunities to students that would otherwise not be available.

Regards,

-S

 

Alien,

I have a better idea of your interests. I have to admit, I’m not very knowledgeable about the areas you find interesting but my best guess is that the academic market isn’t very robust for someone with your interests. One thought that crossed my mind this afternoon was that you might find it helpful to take a look at a couple of recent copies of the American Psychologist because that’s where major universities place position announcements. That way you can obtain some idea of what sells. I’m fixin’ to retire in the not-too-distant future so I don’t scour the adverts but I can’t recall the last time I spied a position announcement for a transpersonal psychologist in the trade journal. Another thought I had is if you were educated in France and haven’t had any experience with American psychology you might find it helpful to enroll in a psychology 101 survey course. I can’t tell you how often, when I taught intro in grad school, students expressed dismay about content expecting a course that focused on philosophical underpinnings or quasi-National Enquirer psychopathology. Things like biological bases of behavior, cognition, measurement, statistics and so forth just paled in contrast. But this is more mainstream American psychology.

I go back to your goals of research, teaching and consultation. A position that supports research implies major university tenure track. Which is the academic gold standard and very difficult to secure regardless of whether you attended a DL or extremely prestigious bricks and mortar school. If you should ever entertain thoughts about taking a degree in applied psychology, you need to read the articles by John Grohol and Ginger Murray in the February, 1999 edition of the Monitor for a ‘fair and balanced’ view. This is available online through the APA website. Alien, I wish you well in your career choice. You’re about to expend a fair amount of time and money so do your due diligence before you commit to a plan.

David

 

hii blackbird, if m not wrong u just mentioned dat when u entered into masters for psychology ,u were not holding a bachelors in d same...n i think if its so, u can really help me out.
i am an IT engineer with good grades but i am genuinly interested in studyin psychology.is it possible for me to pursue a career in psychology?
i hav been lookin for universities in US which do not require an undergraduate degree in psychology for prospective students for MS in IO psychology.
please help me with this.
thanks

 

Twin,

The best way to get your answer is look up a bunch of graduate programs in the field you are interested and see their prerequisites. Some do not have any other than a Bachelors degree.

An example of one of those schools is my own Alma Mater. Capella U's I/O degree does not have coursework prerequisites. Go to this link for that information: http://www.capella.edu/inc/pdf/admissions_requirements.pdf

I hope this helps some.