Newbie needs help selecting BA/BS program

Hello all, I found this forum forum a couple of days ago and would not be posting a new thread if this question was already answered (I can use the search function ) So here's a little info about myself and my goals to make it easier to answer my question. I'm in my early 20's and have been serving in the Air Force on active duty for approximately 5 years. In recent months I have decided that I would like to go to law school and receive my JD once my enlistment is up in 4 years. Before I can accomplish that goal i must complete my Bachelor's degree. With a JD in law being my ultimate goal I feel restricted in my choice of Bachelor's programs and have decided to list - in order of preference which programs I feel have the best chance to get me accepted into my preferred law schools - those being Rutgers -Newark, Rutgers - Camden, Seton Hall, and Brooklyn Law. A little more info - I have earned approximately 140 Bachelor's level credits from CLEP/DSST, Seton Hall, AMU, CCAF, and a variety of community college. I also intend to finish a Master's prior to leaving the AF, however that is considered a soft in Law school admissions and is not as nearly as important as Undergrad studies. So without further adieu here are the programs I am considering for continuing my studies.

Top Choice
Arizona State University B.A. Political Science
http://pgs.clas.asu.edu/undergraduate/majors/LAPOSBA
Cost is $428 per credit, unless they offer resident tuition for active duty military, total cost for degree is approx $10000 not including books.

#2
University of Oklahoma B.S. Criminal Justice
http://www.ou.edu/cls/prospective/bs_cj.shtml
Cost is $250 per credit total cost for degree would be $6000 not including books.

#3
University of North Carolina - Wilmington B.A. Criminology
http://www.uncw.edu/extension/academics-undergrad.html
Cost is $467, resident tuition is only offered if stationed in North Carolina which I am not, total cost would be around $14000 not including books.

#4
Oregon State University B.A. Political Science
http://ecampus.oregonstate.edu/online-degrees/undergraduate/political-science/
Cost is $226 per credit, unfortunately Oregon uses quarter hours of which the military will only cover $166, also transferring credit in may get tricky due to their system. Cost will be around $12000 out of pocket plus books.

and finally

#5
University of Massachusetts - Amherst Bachelor's with Criminal Justice Focus
http://www.umassonline.net/degrees/Online-Degree-Bachelor-Criminal-Justice.cfm
Cost is $350 per credit, cost would be around $9000 plus books. This would be much higher on the list if it were an actual Criminal Justice degree.

So my question is which one of the above degrees would be best?? Am I off base in my choices and are better options are available? Is it better to have a B.A. than a B.S. for the purpose of admittance into an ABA school?? Any and all input would be greatly appreciated!!

 

If you have 140 credits use them now and graduate!

You should send your credits in to Excelsior, Thomas Edison or Charter Oak and get your undergraduate degree. Then spend your study time and money on a graduate degree or go straight to studying for the LSAT. You could have a master's in the time it would take you to get your bachelors from one of the listed schools. If you have a good GPA and GRE score you will not have any trouble getting into an MA program in criminal justice.

 

Thanks Tony

I am a little leery of going after after a degree from a Big 3 school. I'm no school snob and would without a doubt enroll in TESC (I'm a Jersey resident and in-state tuition is great) today if I thought it a undergrad degree would be good enough to get into Law School.

After much searching I only found one example of a Big 3 grad who went on to a top law program. It was actually on this board, however I think her example is a bit extraordinary. She was only 22 rocked through Excelsior's program in less than 3 years and had good life story, great LSAT, and a solid volunteer background. I on the other hand will be 30 at the time of application, not to interesting of a story, and a ?? for LSAT (although I'm confident in pulling off a 160 plus).

My biggest concern will be the way my transcripts will be evaluated with a Big 3 degree. I'm not sure a degree done entirely through testing will be looked upon favorably. I also feel I have plenty of time on my side so grabbing that undergrad degree today isn't totally necessary (I have 5 years remaining on my enlistment). Also every Law school I will be applying to will be in the NY/NJ area so it's not like TESC , COSC, and Excelsior are unheard of entities.

If I am totally of base in my assumptions please let me know! I must admit I know little about a Big 3 grad's chances of getting into a ABA program. That's why I'm here after all - to get my facts straight and make a good informed decision. Thanks!!!

 

I once considered Law School, but lower GPA doesn't help my admission. You should choose the program that fit you the most, which helps your GPA. The most important at this time is keeping up your GPA. If you want to look for others acceptance and rejection from law schools profile, go to LAW SCHOOL BY NUMBERS. Choose top teir school as possible, therefore I would recommend Arizona State University.

 

Thanks for the informative website TEKMAN!! I had been leaning towards ASU and it will most likley wind up being my school of choice come decision time. I'm really thankful for a site like it's because it's a huge wealth of information!

 

Other options

marc, if I read your question properly, there are two separate issues here: quality of degree and ability to use the most credits possible. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

Since I'll go on that assumption, I have a few thoughts. The first is that many institutions offering online programs (which I'm assuming is your interest) allow you to transfer in up to 90 credits. This includes Tier One schools such as Northeastern, which is as impressive a name as any out there. Northeastern's programs in English, Political Science and Public Affairs would be a good fit for anyone looking at law school .

Another program to consider is Penn State's B.A. in Law and Society, but I'm not entirely sure how many credits one can transfer in (they don't seem to specify).

There's also Illinois-Springfield, a Tier One school with online programs in Economics, Philosophy and English (as well as an online M.A. in Legal Studies).

 

Northeastern University is a good school, no doubt. It might receive less credit than is due because of the superlative schools surrounding it. However, I do not think that anyone could seriously say that Northeastern is a tier one school. Don't get me wrong, I'd be very happy to have a degree from Northeastern but I don't think that Jacob could demonstrate, in any way, that it's considered to be on par with Harvard, MIT, Stanford, etc.

I'm less aware of Illinois-Springfield but doesn't that prove the point? There might, just might be one state school that could be considered to be tier one and that's Cal-Berkeley. But Illinois? Tier one? It's a good school, no doubt, but tier one? I don't think so.

 

When you say tier one, are you just meaning subjectively "most highly regarded", or is this an objective ranking of some sort?

US News & World Report list both Illinois-Springfield and Northeastern as "tier one" schools.

 

I would not recommend Penn State's World Campus because your credits from the credit banks are being accepted minimal. I have a friend, who is still in the Marine Corps. I helped him to pick the school, and he chose Penn State's World Campus. All his training and community college, he was able to transfer only class. His plan to pick top school for undergraduate because he wants to attend Harvard Business School or Stanford University for MBA.

There is another Military friendly school is Regent University in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

Another place for Law Schools information from others is TOP LAW SCHOOLS.

Northeastern University is another good choice, but the tuition is expensive.

 

I don't know what criteria USNews is using, I stopped reading that junk years ago. But if Northeastern is tier one then it must mean that a full third of the colleges in the USA are tier one.

 

Marc,

With the selection choices you’ve presented and their perceived undergraduate recognition levels (as all are state supported universities) … I believe that the University of Oklahoma (OU) would be equally on par with the other institutions and with a lower overall tuition rate. In other words, I wouldn’t foresee any advantage differentiation between the five you’re listed pertaining to subsequent law school admittance (e.g., Rutgers -Newark, Rutgers - Camden, Seton Hall, and Brooklyn Law). But on the other hand as has already been purposed, with the 140 hours you’ve already accumulated … why not utilize them with any of the Big-3 and obtain your degree? And with the BA /BS in-hand, possibly consider completing a graduate degree prior to entering law school (?).

 

Here is one professors thoughts on creating a tier one university:
http://www.utdallas.edu/president/documents/thoughts-on-slideshow.pdf

 

My guess is that a Big-3 degree on its own would be a problem in the very competitive admissions programs. However, any BS degree plus a nice master's might be an advantage over a decent BS degree alone. If you spend your time, money and energy on a tough master's program and extensive LSAT preparation you might move past some of the students from the top tier undergraduate schools. It seems counterproductive to retake undergraduate credits, when you could move forward, unless they would give you a low GPA. Also (maybe there's a JD here who knows better) but criminal justice doesn't seem like the best prep for law school. CJ usually concentrates on social theory instead of law.

 

Actually, I asked about contacting the ambassadors, but they are not "real" students, just marketing quotes only. I asked! I didn't want any students phone numbers, I thought they would have an alumni association with former students that would talk about their experiences both at the school and finding employment afterwards. I was shocked when the admissions rep said "they don't want current or prospective students talking to former students". This was a real concern, as was the fact that she wouldn't tell me about the course learning system or how the courses are presented. They do have some issues with the BBB, as well as with former and current students regarding lack of communication and feedback with the mentors. This concerns me because I have a busy schedule and I want to make sure I learn the most I can in the most efficient way. As in instructor myself that teaches online, I'm quite aware and capable of being a self learner, but I would like to know what is expected in the course, so I know if I can or want to double up classes or do them in 6 weeks instead of 12 weeks. This was basic course info that I would think would be available to anyone. The admission rep had me on the phone for over an hour telling me all about her personal life and history without much substance about the programs, even when asked. She is even doing her degree through Univ of Phoenix. She just kept focusing on how I was going to pay for the classes. I told her I would be a cash pay student but still couldn't anywhere. This was after sending 3 online requests for info from their website and not receiving the info packet. I also received an email from her and responded 3 times with specific questions and never heard back. Then I got an email saying they would remove from their list since I was no longer interested in them. I finally got her on the phone. I guess I'm just used to state schools that promote their programs and are more than happy to answer all the questions you have even connecting you to instructors or the Dean to answer specific questions. Maybe I just have more specific questions than they are used to since she had to keep putting me on hold to ask someone else. I'm sure at the doctoral level things are more professional and easier to explain, but at the master's level they didn't seem to know too much or maybe it was just the person I was talking to. But that is the face of the school being presented to me. I'm very disappointed and confused. I just can't afford to make a mistake, but the program is still attractive for it's cost, course election and speed. Now I just have to figure out if it will net the results I need in the long run.

 

Ok in my quest for my own personal benefit I've stumbled on quite a lot of information both on this website and others. Hopefully this will be useful others as well.
Top undegrad majors for those wishing to enter law school - Political Science, Philosophy, Liberal Arts, English, and Sociology as well as a variety of Engineering and technical degrees for those wishing to enter IP law. There is no right or wrong major - GPA and program difficulty factor much more than actual major. Choice of major should more correlate to what you would like to do after law, rather than to get into law itself. For instance for those wishing to enter family law, Sociology would be a good choice, for those aspiring to enter politics Poli Sci is obviously the choice for them, for those looking for positions in the DA office Criminal Justice is often a good choice, for those undecided English is often a good choice for the intense writing background it offers which is needed to tackle the rigors of Top law schools, and liberal arts offers a nice rounded background. In the end GPA and quality of education will make or break a candidate with major being a secondary factor.
For those who have postulate one of the BIG 3 is a great choice beings I have acquired many credits already and it will allow me to go for a advance degree quicker I will offer this. It seems GPA and quality of a degree matter much more than an advance degree in the eyes of admissions boards. In my particular situation in which I have a lot of time in order to complete a Bachelor's and Master's degrees regardless of whether or not I go to a BIG 3 school or a Tier 1 B&M, I believe it is in my best interest to get the best undergrad degree possible and then pursue a quality Master's, again this is because I do have plenty of time and I am not in a rush.

Jacob - great recommendation on Northeastern its definitely top school - it was ranked 80th this year out of all US schools and is quickly climbing. Unfortunately because Northeastern uses QH in their programs and not SH it would be insanely expensive. However it is on my short list of schools for obtaining a Master's especially their 12 month fast-track programs. I was also unaware of UofI's programs - that's a great recommendation for any aspiring for a law student. Not only do they offer degrees in Economics, something not found available from a top school online to often, but they also have a top law school on campus as well.

For those who are interested I have contacted admissions officers at both ASU and Oklahoma. ASU has done an unofficial eval on my records and promised they will accept no fewer than 60 credits, and depending on program of entry may accept 81 credits for matriculation. Their online programs are fairly new and they were looking into whether or not in-state tuition was available to active duty military. A big plus is ASU's degree is offered through their School of Government, Politics and Global studies, the same entity which awards degrees to their on-campus students. However I may look to switch my degree choice as other options than Poli Sci may offer a greater number of transfer credits. After talking to a Oklahoma representative 2 things came out. 1) They would take a max of 66 credits, and only 46 of my CLEP credits which would force me to take some classes in which I have already earned credit, and 2) Their degree is offered through their School of Continuing Education and IS NOT the same as their on campus B.A. in Criminology. The weight seems to be stacked in ASU's favor for now however, I am looking at any and all options and will continue to research the topic for my own and possibly others benefit.

 

After doing more research on UofI -Springfield it seems I had it confused with UofI - Urbana-Champaign. That being said UofI Springfield seems to be well respected within its region based on its on merit and outshines it's other sister school UofI - Chicago. Tuition at UofI is fantastic at $235 per hour regardless of residency. I will be contacting them after the holiday this week to get as much info as possible. Also there grad tuition is phenomenal at $294 per hour!!! That's a steal!!! That easily shoots them to the top of the list for my Master's studies. As of right now they are slotted in at 3rd on my list behind ASU and Oklahoma however, that will quickly change depending on their transfer policy.

 

Ok in my quest for my own personal benefit I've stumbled on quite a lot of information both on this website and others. Hopefully this will be useful others as well.
Top undegrad majors for those wishing to enter law school - Political Science, Philosophy, Liberal Arts, English, and Sociology as well as a variety of Engineering and technical degrees for those wishing to enter IP law. There is no right or wrong major - GPA and program difficulty factor much more than actual major. Choice of major should more correlate to what you would like to do after law, rather than to get into law itself. For instance for those wishing to enter family law, Sociology would be a good choice, for those aspiring to enter politics Poli Sci is obviously the choice for them, for those looking for positions in the DA office Criminal Justice is often a good choice, for those undecided English is often a good choice for the intense writing background it offers which is needed to tackle the rigors of Top law schools, and liberal arts offers a nice rounded background. In the end GPA and quality of education will make or break a candidate with major being a secondary factor.
For those who have postulate one of the BIG 3 is a great choice beings I have acquired many credits already and it will allow me to go for a advance degree quicker I will offer this. It seems GPA and quality of a degree matter much more than an advance degree in the eyes of admissions boards. In my particular situation in which I have a lot of time in order to complete a Bachelor's and Master's degrees regardless of whether or not I go to a BIG 3 school or a Tier 1 B&M, I believe it is in my best interest to get the best undergrad degree possible and then pursue a quality Master's, again this is because I do have plenty of time and I am not in a rush.

Jacob - great recommendation on Northeastern its definitely top school - it was ranked 80th this year out of all US schools and is quickly climbing. Unfortunately because Northeastern uses QH in their programs and not SH it would be insanely expensive. However it is on my short list of schools for obtaining a Master's especially their 12 month fast-track programs. I was also unaware of UofI's programs - that's a great recommendation for any aspiring for a law student. Not only do they offer degrees in Economics, something not found available from a top school online to often, but they also have a top law school on campus as well.

For those who are interested I have contacted admissions officers at both ASU and Oklahoma. ASU has done an unofficial eval on my records and promised they will accept no fewer than 60 credits, and depending on program of entry may accept 81 credits for matriculation. Their online programs are fairly new and they were looking into whether or not in-state tuition was available to active duty military. A big plus is ASU's degree is offered through their School of Government, Politics and Global studies, the same entity which awards degrees to their on-campus students. However I may look to switch my degree choice as other options than Poli Sci may offer a greater number of transfer credits. After talking to a Oklahoma representative 2 things came out. 1) They would take a max of 66 credits, and only 46 of my CLEP credits which would force me to take some classes in which I have already earned credit, and 2) Their degree is offered through their School of Continuing Education and IS NOT the same as their on campus B.A. in Criminology. The weight seems to be stacked in ASU's favor for now however, I am looking at any and all options and will continue to research the topic for my own and possibly others benefit.

 

I use US News and World Report's rankings, as was already pointed out. I never said Northeastern was entirely equal to the schools you mention, you erroneously stated that to make your point, a point which was already shown to be incorrect.

But Northeastern is ranked in the top 100 of all US universities. Take that for whatever you'd like.

 

Marc, agreed that Northeastern is extremely expensive. However, it does have a name which can be helpful when applying to law school.

Ill-Springfield isn't a very well-known institution (as demonstrated by previous commenters), despite having won the following awards: The Sloan Consortium with the 2007 award for Excellence in Institution-Wide Online Teaching and Learning, the 2008 Ralph E. Gomory Award for Quality Online Education and Award for Excellence in Online Reputation Management from The Society for New Communications Research.

USNWR also ranks it as the fourth-best public institution in the Midwest, which is saying something.

Hope this helps, but best of luck to you.

 

I like Northeastern as a school and I'd be happy to have a degree from there. However, I think the USNews rankings are meaningless. Just a way to sell magazines to the nervous parents of high school students. It's just my opinion, no better ot worse than yours.